OTGBionicArm wrote:
Most ADCs are stacking both
Nope, most are only running one, the only champs that generally run both are Trist, Vayne, sometimes Jinx, sometimes Cait and sometimes Ashe. Reasoning is this:
Vayne has no real AD scalings aside from auto-attacks but huge AS scalings, so it's ideal to build 2 Shiv-like items, and Shiv-Cannon is the best duo, before then building IE. Tristana has various synergies with it. She has (or ends up with) huge range to get maximum efficiency out of Firecannon's increased range, and while she has a huge AD ratio on E it's highly dependant on how many auto-attacks she gets off on the marked target, so it scales on AS to an extent, and any squishy dies to her max stacks E whether she builds AD as her 3rd item or not. Also the huge range increase is useful for getting just one more auto-attack off on a low HP enemy to get her resets going. Jinx's damage is almost purely from auto-attacks and she also has huge range with her Q, so she gets the most out of Firecannon's range increase, so it works and some people do it. But I mostly see Jinx's building BT 3rd because she already has more than enough AS thanks to Q (and I think she caps her attack speed at level 18 if she builds both Shiv and Firecannon?), so building lifesteal is more useful and BT's huge AD increases her damage on W and R and possibly gives more overall DPS, just without the Firecannon range cheese. Caitlyn's synergy with the combo is purely just getting the most out of Firecannon's range increase, but I mostly just see people building Firecannon as a standalone item on her rather than combining it with Shiv, seeing as she gains a lot from BT 3rd because of her huge AD scalings on R and her passive. Ashe: No AD ratios except on W, makes a lot of use out of the movement speed to keep applying her passive, the extra crit ensures maximum slow potential from her passive, and crit as a damage source is never wasted on Ashe even if she builds over 100% crit chance. Her "crits" also generally (maybe not with 80% crit chance) deal way less damage per total AD than other champions' do, so her auto-attacks don't scale on AD as well as other champions either.And of course she also has above-average range and makes more use out of Firecannon's range increase than most champions.
Out Of Pancakes wrote:
About Shiv and Rapidfire:
- Shiv gives 5% more AS.
- Rapidfire gives 3% more MS
And then, when you look at the on-hit damage: Rapidfire's on-hit damage is roughly twice as much as Shiv's BUT Shiv's can crit. And then, you trade increased range + structure damage for AoE on up to 5 targets.
Since you now build IE later than you used to or even not build it at all, I prefer Rapidfire because its damage is more reliable and, like other said, you don't really need the AoE Shiv's provide.
- Shiv gives 5% more AS.
- Rapidfire gives 3% more MS
And then, when you look at the on-hit damage: Rapidfire's on-hit damage is roughly twice as much as Shiv's BUT Shiv's can crit. And then, you trade increased range + structure damage for AoE on up to 5 targets.
Since you now build IE later than you used to or even not build it at all, I prefer Rapidfire because its damage is more reliable and, like other said, you don't really need the AoE Shiv's provide.
Statikk Shiv just does more DPS than Rapid Firecannon does because of the +5% AS (which is noticeable, look at how some pros forgo over half or more of their MR glyphs just for +2-3% AS) and the AoE, and the proc even does more single target damage than Firecannon if you crit, which is literally half the time, and the huge range poke you can get out of Firecannon is only generally a viable option on ADC's that already come with huge range. On Lucian for example, you'd get the range of Caitlyn for just one auto-attack, which isn't that big a deal. On Caitlyn, Tristana and Jinx you get an 800+ range auto-attack, which is high enough to safely poke almost anyone that doesn't have an engage range of Malphite or Sejuani, especially with your team nearby.It also shouldn't be forgotten that Shiv subtantially increases your waveclear, which is useful on all ADC's, not just the ones with low wave clear or for people that intend to split push.
I though rapidfire could crit. Oh well. I think it would only be a viable replacement in 1v1 scenarios where the aoe from shiv is wasted, or on bursty/pokey adcs.
1. You cant always expect 1v1 scenarios.
2. The longer the fight the more the 5% attack speed pays off.
3. Aoe burst/poke sometimes trumps that single target burst/poke anyway. (depends on the situation)
1. You cant always expect 1v1 scenarios.
2. The longer the fight the more the 5% attack speed pays off.
3. Aoe burst/poke sometimes trumps that single target burst/poke anyway. (depends on the situation)
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Simsons2
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Hey, h4x, what do you think about Pantheon mid as a Tier 4 situational pick? He has access to blue buff, which fixes his mana issues and an early Hexdrinker pretty much assures you will rarely die. He counters a good amount of mid laners and is countere by very few ( Azir I'm looking at you). His Grand Skyfall can cover both top an bot, depending on the situation. What do you think?
Pantheon mid as a Tier 4 situational pick? He has access to blue buff, which fixes his mana issues and an early Hexdrinker pretty much assures you will rarely die. He counters a good amount of mid laners and is countere by very few ( Azir I'm looking at you). His Grand Skyfall can cover both top an bot, depending on the situation. What do you think?
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Simsons2 wrote:
PBE patch notes only highest damage will be applied from both. Also both have had their price increased by 100g now.
Well there goes what made my new favourite champion so fun to play these past two patches...
Back to
Lucian it is, I guess.Also I wouldn't be surprised if Runaan's becomes standard on most champions now. Like I said before, 5% AS is a noticeable difference and now that it's cheaper than all the alternatives it's more DPS for less gold.
Can anyone explain the nerfs to Reaver? I'm too dumb to understand what they mean. Also, what AS item will be best on Lucian? I feel like Hurricane is really weird because you won't utilize the 1/3 of it. I suppose the bonus physical dmg is nice. Also, I really wish Triforce would be a better option, seeing how it's so expensive (same with Reaver-cdr boots-IE).
Lucian? I feel like Hurricane is really weird because you won't utilize the 1/3 of it. I suppose the bonus physical dmg is nice. Also, I really wish Triforce would be a better option, seeing how it's so expensive (same with Reaver-cdr boots-IE).
Thanks to The_Nameless_Bard for the sig!
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- Shiv gives 5% more AS.
- Rapidfire gives 3% more MS
And then, when you look at the on-hit damage: Rapidfire's on-hit damage is roughly twice as much as Shiv's BUT Shiv's can crit. And then, you trade increased range + structure damage for AoE on up to 5 targets.
Since you now build IE later than you used to or even not build it at all, I prefer Rapidfire because its damage is more reliable and, like other said, you don't really need the AoE Shiv's provide.