Sunfire Aegis is good if you get it early, it provides you with constant magic damage for trades and some waveclear (very useful on Shen or Dr. Mundo, for instance), while also providing you with HP and AR. It also depends on which champion you're playing, some don't need it, others benefit from it. Don't build a Sunfire Cape late game, though.It deals 25 + 1*LEVEL damage per second, which means 40 damage at level 15. During an all in, 1 vs 1 which usually lasts for about 15 seconds. At level 15, enemy champions usually have ~50 MR (without counting items). So that means you will deal (2/3) * (40*15) = 400 magic damage. Early - Mid Game, 400 damage is huge (of course that, because I'm a lazy ***, I didn't count items, but it is still enough damage to make an impact).
IF MY MATH IS WRONG PLEASE CORRECT ME, OR ELSE I WILL FAIL MY CALCULUS I FREQUENCY...
As for
Randuin's Omen vs. Dead Man's Plate, you have to take into account the situation you're in. If they have a fed ADC, perhaps the first is a better option, but like you said, DMP is a bit more appealing (and expensive!, so take that into account too).Also, regarding AD
Fizz, I think that since his ultimate got nurf'd, it's generally not a good idea to play him AD, but that's just my 2 cents.Anyway, hope I helped.
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two words: Frozen Heart
seriously almost all of your top laners can use it well as a second item. even your tank junglers and supports can use it because of how cheap it is as well. but don't take my word for it. I am going to drop the Maths on you so let's take a minute to look at the numbers. Numbers don't Lie
first things first the impact of Armor and Magic resistances it's basically 100/(100+Armor). so a standard rune set that allows for 30 armor already reduces damage to 76% of the advertised amount.
now let's get our random schmuck in here. for the sake of arguement lets get a random *** Champion in here. this Champion will have One Armor item. and just to make it easy the guy will have a base of 1000 HP and 30 Armor.
Now let's plug Numbers: in this situation Frozen Heart will reduce Damge to 45%. (100/220) while Randuin's Omen (100/190) reduces damage to 52%. but again these numbers mean nothing. we still need more context. so once again for the sake of Arguement I am trading with a champion who lands a combo with an advertised worth of 750 damage. with Frozen Heart I take 337 damage. but with Randuin's I take 390. it seems a bit off putting but remember that with Randuin's we have a 400 HP bonus. so when all is said and done I took 27$ of my HP with Randuins while with Frozen Heart I took 33%.
so for a first Item Randuin's out classes Frozen Heart. But the More HP you have, the more this comparision it will Lean towards Frozen Heart, and unless you are rushing yoru Sunfire Aegis or Randuin's Omen you'll almost always be better off with Frozen Heart because most Top laner's build an HP item first.
Frozen Heartseriously almost all of your top laners can use it well as a second item. even your tank junglers and supports can use it because of how cheap it is as well. but don't take my word for it. I am going to drop the Maths on you so let's take a minute to look at the numbers. Numbers don't Lie
first things first the impact of Armor and Magic resistances it's basically 100/(100+Armor). so a standard rune set that allows for 30 armor already reduces damage to 76% of the advertised amount.
now let's get our random schmuck in here. for the sake of arguement lets get a random *** Champion in here. this Champion will have One Armor item. and just to make it easy the guy will have a base of 1000 HP and 30 Armor.
Now let's plug Numbers: in this situation
Frozen Heart will reduce Damge to 45%. (100/220) while Randuin's Omen (100/190) reduces damage to 52%. but again these numbers mean nothing. we still need more context. so once again for the sake of Arguement I am trading with a champion who lands a combo with an advertised worth of 750 damage. with Frozen Heart I take 337 damage. but with Randuin's I take 390. it seems a bit off putting but remember that with Randuin's we have a 400 HP bonus. so when all is said and done I took 27$ of my HP with Randuins while with Frozen Heart I took 33%.so for a first Item Randuin's out classes Frozen Heart. But the More HP you have, the more this comparision it will Lean towards Frozen Heart, and unless you are rushing yoru
Sunfire Aegis or Randuin's Omen you'll almost always be better off with Frozen Heart because most Top laner's build an HP item first.
In my experience they are almost perfectly situational, so they vary from champion to champion and from game to game. I got to say the juggernaut item rebalance was a 10/10 move there.
Dead man's plate is great if you're going to roam, or if your champion lacks slows and I find it more useful in most games. I know the stats from randuin's seem like less, but the attspeed reduction and crit damage reduction (it also reduces magic damage crits) make it a solid buy in some situations.
On top of that, yeah, frozen heart, thornmail and sunfire have their own niches as armor items for tanks. Sunfire works if you are a damage-less tank and want to do something when people won't focus you. Frozen works against several attsp reliant enemies, and if you can use the mana/CDR. Thornmail requires at least one previous armor+health item, and it's the ultimate ad buster.
Oh, and then there is Ohmwrecker :P it's really niche but I found it to work when I get fed with nasus/volibear and I feel like diving a lot.
Dead man's plate is great if you're going to roam, or if your champion lacks slows and I find it more useful in most games. I know the stats from randuin's seem like less, but the attspeed reduction and crit damage reduction (it also reduces magic damage crits) make it a solid buy in some situations.
On top of that, yeah, frozen heart, thornmail and sunfire have their own niches as armor items for tanks. Sunfire works if you are a damage-less tank and want to do something when people won't focus you. Frozen works against several attsp reliant enemies, and if you can use the mana/CDR. Thornmail requires at least one previous armor+health item, and it's the ultimate ad buster.
Oh, and then there is Ohmwrecker :P it's really niche but I found it to work when I get fed with nasus/volibear and I feel like diving a lot.
Before armor change my go to armor item was frozen heart. It was simply too good for it's cost. Now I'm not so sure anymore. I'm buying randuin's as default armor item now, except on few champions that really value mana and cdr.
The thing is, randuin's has hp which helps against magic and true damage too. It's active is now much better and you don't need 400 of defensive stats for active to last 4 seconds like it used to. Also one crucial detail: it has crit damage reduction, which includes spell crits, for example anivia's E while target is frozen and similar cases.
TL;DR Before change FH > randuin's, after change Randuin's > FH except on few champions.
The thing is, randuin's has hp which helps against magic and true damage too. It's active is now much better and you don't need 400 of defensive stats for active to last 4 seconds like it used to. Also one crucial detail: it has crit damage reduction, which includes spell crits, for example anivia's E while target is frozen and similar cases.
TL;DR Before change FH > randuin's, after change Randuin's > FH except on few champions.
not one to argue with a Daimond player, but almsot everyone benifits from Frozen Heart, and there aren't any champs that would rush Randuin's. and every Top lane off-tank that comes to mind would work great with Frozen heart for a few reasons:
You aren't rushing your Armor item first. Darius builds Black Cleaver, Moakai will get some HP with Catalyst. Irelia and Jax get their Triforce. the only reason to NOT build Frozen Heart is really only if you don't use Mana. all these Mana Champs will get an HP item before they Armor up, which makes Frozen heart better than Randuins in most cases. I already did the math AND showed it you guys. don't make me hit you with numbers again.
You aren't rushing your Armor item first. Darius builds Black Cleaver, Moakai will get some HP with Catalyst. Irelia and Jax get their Triforce. the only reason to NOT build Frozen Heart is really only if you don't use Mana. all these Mana Champs will get an HP item before they Armor up, which makes Frozen heart better than Randuins in most cases. I already did the math AND showed it you guys. don't make me hit you with numbers again.
I think you can summarize it like this:
Sunfire Aegis: good as first item when you need it to splitpush, but shouldn't get it any later than that unless you're Shen (who really needs it to splitpush)
Dead Man's Plate: must buy when you need the movement speed
Randuin's Omen: in general my preferred item when you don't need any of the above and when you're facing at least 1 champion with some kind of crit stat (yasuo or IE first ADC).
Frozen Heart: only good when you benefit greatly from the CDR/mana and don't necessarily need lots of HP
Sunfire Aegis: good as first item when you need it to splitpush, but shouldn't get it any later than that unless you're Shen (who really needs it to splitpush) Dead Man's Plate: must buy when you need the movement speed Randuin's Omen: in general my preferred item when you don't need any of the above and when you're facing at least 1 champion with some kind of crit stat (yasuo or IE first ADC). Frozen Heart: only good when you benefit greatly from the CDR/mana and don't necessarily need lots of HP
Kazega wrote:
not one to argue with a Daimond player, but almsot everyone benifits from Frozen Heart, and there aren't any champs that would rush Randuin's. and every Top lane off-tank that comes to mind would work great with Frozen heart for a few reasons:
You aren't rushing your Armor item first. Darius builds Black Cleaver, Moakai will get some HP with Catalyst. Irelia and Jax get their Triforce. the only reason to NOT build Frozen Heart is really only if you don't use Mana. all these Mana Champs will get an HP item before they Armor up, which makes Frozen heart better than Randuins in most cases. I already did the math AND showed it you guys. don't make me hit you with numbers again.
You aren't rushing your Armor item first. Darius builds Black Cleaver, Moakai will get some HP with Catalyst. Irelia and Jax get their Triforce. the only reason to NOT build Frozen Heart is really only if you don't use Mana. all these Mana Champs will get an HP item before they Armor up, which makes Frozen heart better than Randuins in most cases. I already did the math AND showed it you guys. don't make me hit you with numbers again.
Your maths are ********
Kazega wrote:
not one to argue with a Daimond player, but almsot everyone benifits from Frozen Heart, and there aren't any champs that would rush Randuin's. and every Top lane off-tank that comes to mind would work great with Frozen heart for a few reasons:
You aren't rushing your Armor item first. Darius builds Black Cleaver, Moakai will get some HP with Catalyst. Irelia and Jax get their Triforce. the only reason to NOT build Frozen Heart is really only if you don't use Mana. all these Mana Champs will get an HP item before they Armor up, which makes Frozen heart better than Randuins in most cases. I already did the math AND showed it you guys. don't make me hit you with numbers again.
You aren't rushing your Armor item first. Darius builds Black Cleaver, Moakai will get some HP with Catalyst. Irelia and Jax get their Triforce. the only reason to NOT build Frozen Heart is really only if you don't use Mana. all these Mana Champs will get an HP item before they Armor up, which makes Frozen heart better than Randuins in most cases. I already did the math AND showed it you guys. don't make me hit you with numbers again.
Thornmail is much, much better than Frozen Heart and basically the go-to armor item in all cases.
********'s a pretty good fertilizer
Kazega wrote:
two words: Frozen Heart
Frozen HeartBefore Righteous Glory it was my favorite armor, and I do agree it's great. The change has affected it a tad, and I wish with the increase of its price they'd put it back to 20% as reduction, but whatevs. Maybe they'll bring it back with the ranged "Juggernaut" update.
Vynertje wrote:
Dead Man's Plate: must buy when you need the movement speed Randuin's Omen: in general my preferred item when you don't need any of the above and when you're facing at least 1 champion with some kind of crit stat (yasuo or IE first ADC).You do go in detail but I'm becoming a fan of Dead Man's plate. While you do get a tad bit more armor from Randuin's you also give up 200 health (I mostly just want Randuin's to have 500 hp again). And I feel both are useful for slowing someone down, as Dead Man's can help you keep on a target more effectively, which I feel is kinda similar to the use of Randuin's; it just has a smaller slow timer and it's not an active. Since you're Diamond, what's the more "professional" consensus for new Randuin's? Is it okay that it's slow doesn't scale anymore because of that crit reduction?
Re4XN wrote:
Sunfire Aegis is good if you get it early, it provides you with constant magic damage for trades and some waveclear (very useful on Shen or Dr. Mundo, for instance), while also providing you with HP and AR. It also depends on which champion you're playing, some don't need it, others benefit from it. Don't build a Sunfire Cape late game, though.Thanks for the math, or attempt there of. Helps me figure it out a bit; and yeah, forgot it's kinda an essential Shen/Mundo item.
Eyy
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What kind of armor do you build? Since the changes I've been struggling a little bit to figure out what to build. As much as I love Randuin's I wasn't a huge fan of the change and I now consider more of a support item then a plain tank item. Instead I've been building Dead Man's Plate, which has 200 more health for 10 less armor, and the speed boost/slow allow you to stay on a target easier at times (not to mention you can build it for off-tanks like Xin, Jax, etc.). I rarely build Randuin's anymore, but I've also been curious if I should buy Sunfire. I rarely did because Randuin's seemed like such a better choice for both offensive and defensive play. But I sometimes build it on AD Fizz or some other top laners that need a bit of tankiness but also don't want to go too defensive. I'm also curious as to how significant Sunfire's damage is, if anyone has examples or math.