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Latest Legend wrote:
Just going to jump in and say that with a lot of AP champion balancing they had to assume that they always built DFG. Champions were nerfed assuming they always build DFG. If DFG gets changed even just a little, you know you have lots of work to do. If you do that with a lot of champions you get a mess. By removing the item champions can be more easily tuned, which will, if they do it right, lead to a more stable game.
A different way to put it: if you have to assume that everyone buys that specific item, and everyone has to buy that specific item in order to do even remotely well, then why does the item exist? You could just as well remove it from the game and create much more diverse item paths and be able to tune individual champions more precisely.
When they remove it they will have to do a lot of balancing, but in the end they'll be able to tune certain champions much better and more diverse, based on their role and play style. What would they have to do for this? Maybe they should increase damage and cooldowns for burst champions(
Veigar), and perhaps decrease cooldowns a bit for champions like Ahri. Removing DFG enables different solutions for different champions.
I am excited for this change.
A different way to put it: if you have to assume that everyone buys that specific item, and everyone has to buy that specific item in order to do even remotely well, then why does the item exist? You could just as well remove it from the game and create much more diverse item paths and be able to tune individual champions more precisely.
When they remove it they will have to do a lot of balancing, but in the end they'll be able to tune certain champions much better and more diverse, based on their role and play style. What would they have to do for this? Maybe they should increase damage and cooldowns for burst champions(
Veigar), and perhaps decrease cooldowns a bit for champions like Ahri. Removing DFG enables different solutions for different champions.I am excited for this change.
Most AP champs build void staff and rabadon, as well as zhonya. I don't think Riot is gonna remove the items and give apcs more ap and a zhonya active :^)
FalseoGod wrote:
Most AP champs build void staff and rabadon, as well as zhonya. I don't think Riot is gonna remove the items and give apcs more ap and a zhonya active :^)
Well, a problem is that Riot has made items that are just universally amazing. Right now, I can't come up with an item that falls into the same cost and power category as Hourglass and it would actually replace that item for certain AP champions (whilst also being balanced).
I really hope that they will bump up the build diversity, but they would probably have to overhaul a lot.
utopus wrote:
Riot will have effectively taken leblanc out of the game.
LeBlanc has been a high priority pick (not alwaysban worthy, but very frequently picked) in the competative scene pretty much the entire pre-season, and not once did I see her with a DFG. She will still be strong, just not as strong.
The_Nameless_Bard wrote:
Yet you cannot understand why they're removing it? /facepalm
Also at least four of those champions I never see anyone building dfg on except maybe as a very late game item, but I'm not a mid laner.
Also at least four of those champions I never see anyone building dfg on except maybe as a very late game item, but I'm not a mid laner.
Hey, I was being sarcastic. I was a much better player than that corki and I landed a very long ranged stun while predicting his W and then didn't miss a single Q, and also he died to a 5 sphere ult + dfg from 50%~ ish hp without any real magic resistance so I think it's fine. My whole syndra comments have been sarcastic though xD There is a reason why I said "syndra will need more damage on her ult" without giving any further reasoning like I did with every other champ, but I guess sarcasm is hard to detect in written form
Okay, I've been reading some replies and holy ****, never have I been unable to see the situation through the eyes of the opposing party in an argument I've been involved in...
YES, the LACK OF COUNTER PLAY BY ASSASSINS IS GOOD FOR THE GAME. It's ****ing amazing for this game. If there was no rush, no risk and this game turned in to a stupid bore fest it would lose half of it's players... It's not just about "being fair to everyone" you're being unfair to your enemies AND to yourself. You go in at the perfect time, do your combo without any slip ups - YOU KILL AN ENEMY IN A SPLIT SECOND! You go in at a bad time, slip up your combo... you die without achieving anything. It's either do or die. What's the problem with this?
And please for the love of god don't mention high elo builds to me... if 2% of the player population builds something in a specific way doesn't mean the other 98% doesn't go with the build paths that require less skill. I hate that the balance around this game is often centered around high elo and high elo only... It's catering to the minority and often takes a lot of enjoyment away from the majority.
About the corki example I mentioned earlier, if I actually missed my stun I would've died. Infact, I was barely left with 200 hp, meaning if I hadn't hit every Q he would've been able to get one auto off and kill me. Now imagine if I never had the potential to do what I did, my damage would just be insufficient - meaning I would've stayed back for a year and tried to whittle him down, eventually bringing him low enough so he has to recall. Where does this lead? how is this fun? Not to mention, as an ADC he thrives in team fights where the above-mentioned playstyle reigns supreme. If the assassin playstyle didn't exist then there would be no reason for the sustained dps/adc playstyle to exist either. Both of them are useless without eachother, and I think removing DFG is a step in the wrong direction. (PLEASE NOTE, as apparently it is not painfully obvious like I figured, I DO NOT MEAN THAT SYNDRA NEEDS BUFFS. I JUST TOOK HER AS AN EXAMPLE - Replace syndra with any other assassin (except maybe leblanc or fizz cause their strength is most apparent in 1v1's)
Also, I'm not waiting to hear riot's reasoning because their reasoning usually sucks balls. NO reasoning could justify removing dfg right now. Maybe if they did so at the start of preseason, but in this time frame? **** NO.
Also, I've said what I had to say and I will not participating in this argument any longer. It's obvious that the opinions on the removal of dfg are strictly divided with no middle ground. Arguments like this will never go anywhere.
YES, the LACK OF COUNTER PLAY BY ASSASSINS IS GOOD FOR THE GAME. It's ****ing amazing for this game. If there was no rush, no risk and this game turned in to a stupid bore fest it would lose half of it's players... It's not just about "being fair to everyone" you're being unfair to your enemies AND to yourself. You go in at the perfect time, do your combo without any slip ups - YOU KILL AN ENEMY IN A SPLIT SECOND! You go in at a bad time, slip up your combo... you die without achieving anything. It's either do or die. What's the problem with this?
And please for the love of god don't mention high elo builds to me... if 2% of the player population builds something in a specific way doesn't mean the other 98% doesn't go with the build paths that require less skill. I hate that the balance around this game is often centered around high elo and high elo only... It's catering to the minority and often takes a lot of enjoyment away from the majority.
About the corki example I mentioned earlier, if I actually missed my stun I would've died. Infact, I was barely left with 200 hp, meaning if I hadn't hit every Q he would've been able to get one auto off and kill me. Now imagine if I never had the potential to do what I did, my damage would just be insufficient - meaning I would've stayed back for a year and tried to whittle him down, eventually bringing him low enough so he has to recall. Where does this lead? how is this fun? Not to mention, as an ADC he thrives in team fights where the above-mentioned playstyle reigns supreme. If the assassin playstyle didn't exist then there would be no reason for the sustained dps/adc playstyle to exist either. Both of them are useless without eachother, and I think removing DFG is a step in the wrong direction. (PLEASE NOTE, as apparently it is not painfully obvious like I figured, I DO NOT MEAN THAT SYNDRA NEEDS BUFFS. I JUST TOOK HER AS AN EXAMPLE - Replace syndra with any other assassin (except maybe leblanc or fizz cause their strength is most apparent in 1v1's)
Also, I'm not waiting to hear riot's reasoning because their reasoning usually sucks balls. NO reasoning could justify removing dfg right now. Maybe if they did so at the start of preseason, but in this time frame? **** NO.
Also, I've said what I had to say and I will not participating in this argument any longer. It's obvious that the opinions on the removal of dfg are strictly divided with no middle ground. Arguments like this will never go anywhere.
Khazem wrote:
you guys don't understand...
my AP trist...
my AP trist...
AP trist is dead with her new E
SHE IS DEAAADDDDD
This annoys me because i will stop seeing stupidly funny and amazing things like AP zacs, AP Malphites and stuff.
But, as a LB player, i ain't even mad. I will just need another 120+ ap item for my late game
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A different way to put it: if you have to assume that everyone buys that specific item, and everyone has to buy that specific item in order to do even remotely well, then why does the item exist? You could just as well remove it from the game and create much more diverse item paths and be able to tune individual champions more precisely.
When they remove it they will have to do a lot of balancing, but in the end they'll be able to tune certain champions much better and more diverse, based on their role and play style. What would they have to do for this? Maybe they should increase damage and cooldowns for burst champions(
I am excited for this change.