DFG is being removed.

[quote=Hatted]I had no idea that everyone despised DFG. I love it, it makes Annie wonderful.[/quote]

[quote=TheKut]Never liked the item anyway. I loved [[Ahri]] when she was released and then suddenly you needed DFG to even make her viable. That sucked. A champion should not have to buy a specific item just to make it work. I hated to play a champion and then feel obligated to buy the stupid item if I didn't want to fall off hopelessly. And I look forward to the buffs to [[Veigar]], [[Annie]] and [[Ahri]] so I can play them to my heart's content without the DFG force. It also sucked when you managed to keep Kata down in lane, then she eventually buys DFG and just suddenly starts to 1-shot people.[/quote]

[quote=TheKut][quote=NicknameMy][[quicksilver sash]] is an item, which adds so much counterplay into the game that it turns some champions into useless to use. There shouldn't be 1 item in the game that makes 1 champion totally useless. A champion ability, yes, but no item. I think it should no longer remove debuffs like [[children of the grave]] or [[death mark]], as they already have enough counters against them. [[children of the grave]]: Stay out of range of the enemys until it wears off. [[death mark]]: [[zhonya's hourglass]], escape before [[zed]] deals any damage, etc. There is no reason why [[quicksilver sash]] should make [[mordekaiser]] completly useless to use when there are other ways to counterplay. For that, [[banshee's veil]] should be enough in terms of items.[/quote] Just wanted to throw in [[Malzahar]] here as well, no one hated QSS as much as him. I remember playing him against a [[Zed]], and I was having a little trouble and then when I finally got my ult I could actually kill him. Then both him, their top [[Riven]] and their [[Corki]] bought QSS and I was officially out of the game.[/quote]

[quote=Lady Amelyne]No one's forcing you to buy DFG lol.[/quote]

[quote=TheKut]Just like no one's forcing you to buy IE on your adc, yet if you don't buy it you know that you will fall behind the other adc who does. [[Ahri]]'s balancing was centered around the possiblity that she would most likely get DFG, which in turn created the scenario where if you don't want to get DFG she will feel underwhelming. Same with [[LeBlanc]] or [[Veigar]] or [[Annie]] (well, not her as much, but a little bit still).[/quote]

[quote=emoriam][quote=TheKut]Just like no one's forcing you to buy IE on your adc, yet if you don't buy it you know that you will fall behind the other adc who does.[/quote] That's a common thing about carry builds tho but I think [[Deathfire Grasp]] is on a different spot than [[Infinity Edge]] as IE's stats are rather unique and DFG is just one out of three 120 AP items for instance ... It's hard for Riot to create an enviroment in which [[The Bloodthirster]] (like it has been before) and [[Infinity Edge]] are equally good, it's like a paradox.[/quote]

[quote=Lady Amelyne]You shouldn't fall so far behind if you know what you're doing. And no, in no way can IE and DFG compare to each other.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]An what are those broken champions going to do now? It's alled nerfing an item not removing it. And 15% max health and 20% more damage is a lot to replace, in case anyone hasn't noticed because they don't play AP mids.[/quote] I mean they're largely broken even without DFG. [[syndra]], [[veigar]], [[leblanc]], etc can 100-0 a load of champions in one rotation without DFG. Honestly, the only champion that I think would actually suffer from this is [[ahri]] because of her relatively poor scalings and she's getting buffed anyway. [[veigar]] is just a gimmicky [[syndra]], let's be honest. [[syndra]] doesn't even have to prioritise building DFG. [quote=NicknameMy][[quicksilver sash]] is an item, which adds so much counterplay into the game that it turns some champions into useless to use. There shouldn't be 1 item in the game that makes 1 champion totally useless. A champion ability, yes, but no item. I think it should no longer remove debuffs like [[children of the grave]] or [[death mark]], as they already have enough counters against them. [[children of the grave]]: Stay out of range of the enemys until it wears off. [[death mark]]: [[zhonya's hourglass]], escape before [[zed]] deals any damage, etc. There is no reason why [[quicksilver sash]] should make [[mordekaiser]] completly useless to use when there are other ways to counterplay. For that, [[banshee's veil]] should be enough in terms of items.[/quote] It really isn't that much of a counterplay item. 1) Being forced into building a particular item because there are no other (or very few) forms of counterplay to a particular ability/item means that ability/item is in some way broken. 2) It takes up an item slot and only upgrades into an AD item. If you're not an AD based champion, that's a load of stats that you're inefficiently wasting because you're basically forced into building it. 3) It's a one-use only item in a teamfight with lingering effects. It doesn't add 'so much counterplay' when you can get chain CC-ed or nuked anyway, since it doesn't heal like [[mikael's crucible]]. It's effective, I won't argue that, but it's not something which solves the problem, because it creates problems of its own, mostly of which is that it requires money and an item slot. Having to buy QSS is never a good thing.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark]Some of you are over-reacting so much lol. [quote=XeresAce]WTF riot Syndra is gonna need increased damage on her ultimate now Ahri is definitely gonna need damage buffs all around the board AP eve needs to be a thing again. She was fine with her previous nerfs. Gutting dfg into what it is now and then nerfing ap eve like heck at the same time was stupid. Also, I never thought a champion manipulating the shadows, lurking in stealth and preying on opponents would end up... hopelessly running up to them and using 1 tiny skill to whittle them down while being nothing more than a meatshield. She should be an ap assassin imo :< Veigar already has a crap ton of burst but he will need some help deleting tanks in 1 combo, maybe add some sort of %health magic damage on one of his skills? Annie could use some base damage buffs to compensate for the lack of burst. It was good on mid lissandra if you needed extra burst. I don't care if riot designed her as a CC mage, sacrificing some of your defense to better be able to delete 1 target was an okay trade. I can't really say "buff lissandra" cause she's in a very delicate spot right now though. I bought dfg on diana from time to time. Timing your third passive enhanced auto attack with DFG>Q>ULT was more or less a oneshot combo >_> Poor katarina :( Maybe make her more teamfight oriented rather than an assassin? She really needed dfg to kill people by the end of her ult channel. This will fuck up her resets and hurt her quite bad Mordekaiser gets hurt pretty bad :/ TBH most mage champions got hurt pretty bad with this. DFG was one of the only 3 items providing 120 ap, and also a decent amount of cdr (10%) that was very efficient at rounding up the cdr without reaching over the cap. If a replacement item with similar ap values doesn't come out then I'll be pissed >_>[/quote] [quote]Syndra is gonna need increased damage on her ultimate now[/quote] Not everyone builds DFG on Syndra. In fact I've not seen a single person build DFG competitively at all, it's only ever been a solo queue thing as far as I can tell. Even then I think I've seen Rabadon's more than DFG. [quote]Ahri is definitely gonna need damage buffs all around the board[/quote] They intend to. [quote]Veigar already has a crap ton of burst but he will need some help deleting tanks in 1 combo, maybe add some sort of %health magic damage on one of his skills?[/quote] If you catch your enemy laner in a stun as Veigar, W Q R Ignite will 1-shot them. There's some form of counterplay there; don't get stunned so you can dodge his W. When Veigar completes DFG, DFG Q R Ignite will 1-shot them. There's only ONE way to counterplay that; stay the fuck away from Veigar. You really think a champion who can 1-shot you in 3 clicks no matter how much you're winning lane is something people want in this game? Veigar's in a weak spot anyway and he's going to be receiving compensatory buffs just like Ahri is, so wait and see how he is afterwards. [quote]Annie could use some base damage buffs to compensate for the lack of burst.[/quote] Again, not everyone builds DFG on Annie, at least on mid lane. She can still 1-shot people just with Rabadon's rush. She's not going to receive compensation for an optional item being removed. [quote]It was good on mid lissandra if you needed extra burst. I don't care if riot designed her as a CC mage, sacrificing some of your defense to better be able to delete 1 target was an okay trade. I can't really say "buff lissandra" cause she's in a very delicate spot right now though.[/quote] It was good on EVERYONE for extra burst. Doesn't mean every champ who had the possibility of building it should be compensated, even if they aren't as strong right now as Lissandra. [quote]I bought dfg on diana from time to time. Timing your third passive enhanced auto attack with DFG>Q>ULT was more or less a oneshot combo >_>[/quote] [img=http://puu.sh/evGLP/e9aff51267.jpg] No one builds it on Diana either. [quote]Poor katarina :( Maybe make her more teamfight oriented rather than an assassin? She really needed dfg to kill people by the end of her ult channel. This will fuck up her resets and hurt her quite bad[/quote] Katarina will be fine without it, DFG build is only one way of playing her. [img=http://puu.sh/evH37/68c215eb59.jpg] [quote]Mordekaiser gets hurt pretty bad :/[/quote] Barely anyone builds it on Mordekaiser. [img=http://puu.sh/evHiH/bc0421bead.jpg] [quote]TBH most mage champions got hurt pretty bad with this. DFG was one of the only 3 items providing 120 ap, and also a decent amount of cdr (10%) that was very efficient at rounding up the cdr without reaching over the cap. If a replacement item with similar ap values doesn't come out then I'll be pissed >_>[/quote] NO ONE bought DFG just because of the high AP, they only bought it if they wanted the active. "Most mage champions" build Liandry's or Rylai's as a 6th item, generally. --------------------- The only champions who's general viability is going to be affected by this, off the top of my head, are Ahri and Veigar. Every other champion I recall seeing in this thread is someone who is often and even mostly played without DFG anyway.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][img=http://i.imgur.com/uEdGp2l.gif] Okay, I'm only going to say this once, and I also will not bother responding to everyone individually as that will take too much time and effort on my part. One: In its core, DFG is an utterly toxic item with about zero counterplay and statistics which are absolutely bonkers. The item, at one point in time, used to serve a purpose as health-stacking counter, and later simply as a way for mage-assassins to effectively deal with tanks. However, ever since Season 3, champions simply aren't all that tanky any more so there's hardly a reason that justifies this item's existence. Two: The item is hardly part of any champion's core build; only bad the bad and the behind [[LeBlanc]] players will rush this item and no one else. Yes, champions like [[Syndra]] and [[LeBlanc]] can use it for the late-game but those champions are not about the late-game whatsoever; [[Syndra]] might end up actually having to hit her spells in order to completely kill someone! Oh the horror! [[Ahri]] is another champion who stopped rushing this item altogether as people are looking for items that are less binary. [[Morellonomicon]] is the new stuff to rush so removing DFG does absolutely nothing for anyone's build. All the item does is turning its builder into a burst champion – examples include, but are not limited to, [[Vladimir]], [[Mordekaiser]], [[Lissandra]], and [[Twisted Fate]] – whilst they shouldn't be, based on their kit, and/or it's not their role in general. Three: The removal/rework – because I'm certain the item will come back at some point, in some other shape or form – of DFG is very healthy for the game; it does not really affect how any of the strong mages are supposed to be played and built, and at the same time, it makes it a lot harder for certain champions to abuse lower skilled players. In lower-rated games, any [[LeBlanc]] will rush DFG and it works, because the item requires no skill whatsoever. The champion is not used to its full potential, but it works out anyway, so there's no real problem for the user. Four: It makes it far easier to balance out certain aspects of the game and prevent some aspects from becoming overbearing, such as percentual damage modifiers including, but not limited to, [[Charm]], [[Diplomatic Immunity]], and [[Hemoplague]]. Five: DFG isn't like IE at all; it's like IE's stats with SotD's active which wouldn't remove the stats as long it is on cool down. Can you imagine that? The counter play? Yes, that's DFG, try to grasp – pun totally intended – concept. Lastly, yes it nerfs [[Veigar]], but who the fuck cares? The champion is bad and has no value in the current meta game, and as far as I know, the champion has never ever seen competitive play, so I wouldn't be too sad about him. Also, as far as I know, he no longer builds it as his first major item. P.S. Just saw Vapora Dark's post: The builds that dominate on [[Diana]] and [[Katarina]] are generally [[Abyssal Scepter]] into [[Zhonya's Hourglass]]. DFG just makes it less easy to abuse the snowballing effect and they will be forced to go risky like [icon=Rabadon's Deathcap] Deathcap or [[Mejai's Soulstealer]], which, by the way, is a good thing.[/quote]