I want to send a public message.

[quote=Vort][quote=The_Nameless_Bard] I said "playable" not "good enough to play in ranked". [/quote] C'mon now, ranked's not thaaat serious. How about "good enough to play at worlds." ;) [quote=The_Nameless_Bard] Kayle should not be compared to Soraka, they're nothing alike. You harass with Kayle and most certainly don't go all in with her. Her ult is massively useful at all stages of the game. She's far more similar to Lulu than she is to Soraka, in terms of playstyle. [/quote] You can all-in with Kayle. She has a really strong level 2 all-in. I'd actually say she's better played as an all-in support, but you're not forced to all-in. Should prolly try her again this season at some point, cause I don't know how she does with the current standing. She might actually be passably okay as a support now, now that I consider it. You're definitely right though, she's nothing like Soraka. I wouldn't say she's any more -- or much more -- like Lulu either though. You said it already. Champions are unique with unique functionality and applicability. [quote=The_Nameless_Bard] Shen really isn't anything like Leona, he should use his taunt as a counter-engage to pull aggro off his carry in a trade, rather than engaging with it. He also has a lot of global presence with his ult and can pull off trades other champions are just incapable of, even when played as a support. [/quote] I'm going to have to sympathize with the comparison on this one. They're not the same champion, no, but they serve a similar purpose in lane. Skillshot CC engage into an amount of burst damage, used to engage or counter-engage. Shen's CC just happens to be an AoE taunt, whereas Leona's is comprised largely of stuns. I also don't generally agree that he has much global presence. He can have a lot of global presence, but ulting out of a duo lane is often worth less than keeping presence in the lane. He's a strong 2v1 support though, and if he manages to get gold, can fill the role of split-pusher eventually, even as a support. Beyond this, however, his engage and burst potential as a support is much lower to Leona's, and while his sustained dueling is better, this isn't much use in a duo lane. [quote=The_Nameless_Bard] Maokai is sort of like Leona, but he has ranged harass Leona will never have. His ult reduces damage and that gives him a fair amount of utility, whereas Leona is pretty much 99% engage. [/quote] In my opinion, you can't afford to use saplings for ranged harass very often on Maokai support. Too mana hungry. Better off using them when you need vision for a second, or as part of your burst. My opinion, of course. Also, Leona's CC disrupts damage for upwards of 3 seconds from a single target -- or from multiple, if people are trying to run. CC lock-down and forcing someone to kite are effectively damage reduction, so I disagree on that point. It's easier, in my opinion, to fight back against a Maokai lane, than a Leona lane. Because of the long travel time on Maokai's engage, you can often force him into awkward positions and split his engage from his carry. His CC is also only comprised of a root, a brief knockup, and a slow. You can continue fighting through his entire combo, save the knockup. Leona locks a target down completely for an extended amount of time. I'd almost argue Maokai's self-healing passive is his most valuable asset as a support. It essentially enables him to never need to engage below high health. [quote=The_Nameless_Bard] and, finally, Gangplank isn't even remotely like Janna. He has pretty decent harass that's hard to ignore and an AoE AD buff that makes turret pushing, in general, and sieging with AD champions more effective, whereas Janna has almost no harass potential and a single target shield that gives an AD buff...not to mention the global pressure his ult gives. [/quote] The main comparison there is the AoE movespeed buff, and I suppose the slows in both champions kits, though GP's slow has a much higher ramp-up time, but potentially longer duration. GP can harass to some degree, but his strength lies in his all-in. If you can manage to touch one of the enemy champions in melee range, from equal standing, without tanking too much creep damage, you will win that fight. And in response to Jimmydoggga's comment earlier about needing IE on gangplank to do anything, I believe this is falsely placed. His E and ult are enough utility in a roaming team-fight team to make him "useful," and even built full tank, he remains a threat, and a fairly strong utility, as his passive and steroids provide him with a decent amount of innate damage and utility. I still wouldn't say he's a good support pick in most cases, but he does have his place. One further note about the Janna/GP comparison. Janna's primary utility lies in her ability to AoE disengage. She can use this to other ends, but that's her primary function and utility. GP's primary utility lies in his ability to speed up and buff his allies, and globally slow down, damage, reveal, and damage enemy champions. Secondarily, he has moderate innate damage and minor CC on his autos. [quote=The_Nameless_Bard] again, I'm not trying to compare the effectiveness of these champions, I'm just pointing out that there are actual reasons why they can be played effectively as supports. [/quote] Gotcha covered there :D [quote=MissMaw] Unconventional supports are most fun though :3 Lux, Morg, Yorick, etc are my favorites to play atm. [/quote]I agree, I especially enjoy Yorick. Ever play Urgot support? you just let them push, then ult their carry into your turret 8D #ggbotlane [/quote] Failing to see how Lux is unconventional. Morg, perhaps, though I've seen a lot of that lately. Yorick... no one plays Yorick. He's an amazing champion though, and I will have to agree that he makes quite an entertaining support. Urgot though? It's hard enough trying to make him work when you do have cs to work with. Seriously, Amanda? xD -- I mean, don't get me wrong, I enjoy the champion, and I've tried him as support, but it's a massively painful scenario. Also, does anyone else feel that this post is a bit out of place? I mean, it's an attempt at a public service message, but it's posted on Mobafire of all places. Isn't this like... a super tight-knit group of closed minded individuals who never get along or something? I dunno. Feels out of place to me :P[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64][quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0] [quote=DillButt64] hasnt this guys past like 3 threads been troll threads about him being king and how you can only play ranked after passing an IQ test? same with his blogs too so im pretty sure hes just trolling about "rahrahrah supports are leona and thresh and thats it!" also he said nidalees traps only give vision for 2 seconds which is way wrong [/quote] No thats some other person. Seriously though, does anyone actually use ANY of the supports on his list? Apart from Karma and Annie literally every single one is like trash tier support. [/quote] oh my bad i thought it was the same person oh well either way lame thread is lame, if someone wants to play whatever support just let them its probably better than what you want them to play[/quote]

[quote=Jovy][quote=The_Nameless_Bard] I agree, I especially enjoy Yorick. Ever play Urgot support? you just let them push, then ult their carry into your turret 8D #ggbotlane [/quote]Woah, woah! Let's not get [i]too[/i] crazy! [quote=Vort]Failing to see how Lux is unconventional. Morg, perhaps, though I've seen a lot of that lately.[/quote]Can't call Lux conventional and then call Morg unconventional :P Almost no one plays Lux support and just about everyone plays Morg nowadays.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=OTGBionicArm] I see [[Viktor]] didn't make your list. I will continue playing him as a support, and you can't stop me! [/quote] He didn't put [[viktor]] in for the same reason he didn't put [[heimerdinger]], [[anivia]], [[nautilus]] and [[urgot]]. ;)[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]Cause they are amazing and super secret supports and talking about them breaks my oath to the covenant? Fuck.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=MissMaw] Woah, woah! Let's not get [i]too[/i] crazy! [/quote] I was joking...do people really think I just say random bullshit things and ACTUALLY mean them? xD @Vort I wouldn't personally go all-in with Kayle the same way I go all-in with Soraka, that's all I was saying about her. The other things are things I either missed or just stated badly, so thanks there[/quote]

[quote=utopus][quote=FantasySniper] [[Annie]]* [/quote] MUST I SLAP YOU?[/quote]

[quote=sirell]The greatest issue I have with your OP is that MANY of those you listed have seen either high tier play or even competitive play. [[zilean]] only suffers mana problems and is quite squishy, but he brings a lot of damage and harass to the lane, as well as indispensable utility with his ultimate. It sucks a little that his damage is a little delayed compared to other supports (like [[annie]]), but targeted/unavoidable damage is OP as fuck. [[lux]] shines better going mid, but snares, slows, shields and HUGE damage make her more than viable enough as a support. [[annie]] is like one of the top 3-4 supports around at the moment... Instant AoE stuns, long range AA harass, defensive shield that reflects AA damage, more than decent AP scalings if you choose to go AP... [[kayle]] is aggressive as hell - no real CC, but mediocre sustain and HUGE chunks of targeted damage (which you can only avoid by being out of her Q or AA range). If anyone needs testament to support [[kayle]], SKT T1 K's new support - Casper - got to Challenger maining support [[Kayle]]. [[karma]] brings so much early damage and so much mid-late game utility, there's no way she can't be played support. [[teemo]] is kinda troll, but he brings decent damage and a blind which is, quite frankly, crippling against ADCs. Post 6 you get insane lane safety, but then in teamfights, suffers the age-old problems that all [[teemo]]s share. Other than damage, they contribute very little. [[nidalee]] - people are split on this one. If you can hit/harass with spears, it's legit. If you can't hit a single one, she's not. Moderate lane safety and decent sustain. Her greatest problem is probably the lack of CC and mana early on. There are just other champions that can do her job a bit more reliably, especially without sacrificing utility. [[maokai]] is weird in the support role and, tbh, he really needs a fair bit of money to work well, but bring some good engage and harass to the lane, as well as some general utility. Personally don't like him and I think this one's trolling too, but I can see how it can work. [[gangplank]] brings some moderate poke damage and, with [[relic shield]] can amass a decent gold lead over enemy supports. His ally buff is nothing to laugh at either. Just kinda sucks that he's melee against mostly ranged, so he can't trade the way he usually would if he was against toplane melee bruisers. Not really a legit support either, in my opinion, but quite fun to play in this role. [[shen]] - someone said it earlier, [[shen]] is just a weaker [[leona]], but there are some cheese strategies that you can use with his ultimate to give top/mid-lane advantage. Your solo lanes can bait the enemy into over-committing and then a [[shen]] ultimate wins the trade, letting you secure tower or possibly dragon, whilst your ADC holds bot on their own, if they can (not all ADCs can do this easily, though). But otherwise, pretty crappy and takes a while for him to reach a point in the game when he can taunt someone and not die. [[elise]] is so legit, she just shines better in jungle. People are always surprised by how much damage she can output. A [[cocoon]] -> W -> Q -> Spider -> Q can actually deal 2/3 hp damage on most ADCs. [[galio]] - I actually ran this a few times in Season 2. Clearly not as viable now, if it ever way (no, it wasn't). Decent shield, Q is a crippling slow if you can hit it, he has okay-ish damage with just a [[chalice of harmony]] and his ultimate is meh at best (most other supports have some way of cancelling it). E is good for chasing/escaping, but that's pretty much it. Pretty shit support all-around. [[ashe]] - it has its uses and there's actually decent ways to build her going support. I think someone once mentioned to me that her original design was actually as a support champion who just gradually developed into ADC. I don't know, though. [[leblanc]] brings a lot of damage and quite a decent set of CC. Suffers a little from being squishy and mana intense, but [[leblanc]] has actually seen support player in high tiers in the past.[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod]More supports that aren't conventional: [[Syndra]], who has two types of CC with really long range but is 100% skillshot reliant and a "reaction" support (aka you'll almost never be the support doing stuff, rather the one reacting to what's happening) putting her bellow other reaction supports like [[lulu]], [[janna]] or [[nami]]. [[Lissandra]] is a cheesy [[leona]] with more over time CC (until her mana goes out her Q + W can keep enemies at bay) but relies on all-ins while having low HP. [[dr. mundo]] also has support qualities if you bring HP regen. Spam Q alongside a strong poke ADC (caitlyn comes to mind). There was also support [[kennen]] seen on competitive level. Seen [[veigar]] as well but he has a terrible lane phase with a CC type that can be hard to land in some situations and can't protect himself well. One shots carries late game obviously. [[vel'koz]] has a strong disengage, a strong slow and scales well with magic pen, so not going full dumb ap doesn't stop him from hurting at all. [[lee sin]] not sure about now, but he used to be a fair nuisance with great damage, a good shield and crippling AA impairment on E. [[jarvan iv]] dat level 2 tho.[/quote]

[quote=Nera]well... pretty much everyone has said what i wanted to say:D. overall some of those supports are niche picks and can work every once in a while and by no means should be used consistently. But also have to admit that older supports [[taric]] and what nots have slowly fallen off out of the meta as plain dmg dealing supports are overpowered right now. Just become a Third carry out of the gold flow and there you go! So yea the likes of [[annie]],[[lux]],[[morgana]],[[karma]] have their place in the bot lane with the new season 4 gold flow. Alot of people are having trouble adapting to the new meta apparently. :) Nera[/quote]