Least Useful Champ

[quote=DuffTime]Baron speed is fine but it doesn't make up for your team having to carry a shit champion in teamfights. My view on that situation; Okay, we got the sneaky ninja baron, now lets go fight. Okay, we aced their team with our good champions, now let's get baron for free. ------------------------------------------------------------ Okay, we can't go into certain bushes. If we avoid them however, AP Shaco is completely useless. Is it annoying? Yes. If we step in the bush, are we dead? Yes. Does that make Shaco good? No. He's awful. ------------------------------------------------------- I don't think there is a specific "Worst champion" but I do think that Shaco and Eve are towards the very lowest ends of the list. Ironically, I think AP Shaco might be even worse than AD Shaco.[/quote]

[quote=Xaioli]Please enlighten me on why AP Shaco is bad. This game is played way too cookie cutter style. Pick X champion, you're forced to lane this way. Shaco brings a different dynamic to this game. He FORCES players to change their playstyle. There's no more innocent we poke each other lane, all you have to do is set a box in a brush or lane and people are paranoid forever. There's no longer any innocent jungling with you stay on your half, I stay on my half - you take my wraiths, I'll just take yours to be even. No, good shaco players will go and ruin everyone's day. Not only does Shaco force you to change your playstyle by just BEING IN THE GAME but his damage utilities are quite strong. His shiv is a great harass and assassination ability. Shiv is at a 1:1 ratio. That's disturbingly strong. With Shaco's jack in the boxes, you can easily close off chokes and be aware of incoming enemies. Stacked boxes are basically a nightmare to players and all minions/creeps. Shaco's Deceive is basically a mini flash/stealth so you can go and pick off the squishy AD/AP carries. Deceive is also an amazing escape ability. You can draw enemies out for a false split-push and psyche them out. Moving on to Shaco's ultimate. Shaco's clone does some mad damage and the little explosion at the end is just for good measure - especially with a proper amount of Ability Power that is easily obtainable. Why do I see Shaco as a viable champion? Mainly because of his shiv and boxes. Shiv is on a relatively low cooldown so it's strong damage is spammable. Jack in the Boxes can wreck Baron; Dragon, Creeps, Minions and enemy champions. When you place a box in a bush or lane, every enemy in the vicinity becomes paranoid. What if the enemy just says "Oh, I'll just wait for the box to die off." That's a lot of wasted time and it gives your team essential time to coordinate. kthatsit[/quote]

[quote=UnitedAmerika][quote=Xaioli] Please enlighten me on why AP Shaco is bad. This game is played way too cookie cutter style. Pick X champion, you're forced to lane this way. Shaco brings a different dynamic to this game. He FORCES players to change their playstyle. There's no more innocent we poke each other lane, all you have to do is set a box in a brush or lane and people are paranoid forever. There's no longer any innocent jungling with you stay on your half, I stay on my half - you take my wraiths, I'll just take yours to be even. No, good shaco players will go and ruin everyone's day. Not only does Shaco force you to change your playstyle by just BEING IN THE GAME but his damage utilities are quite strong. His shiv is a great harass and assassination ability. Shiv is at a 1:1 ratio. That's disturbingly strong. With Shaco's jack in the boxes, you can easily close off chokes and be aware of incoming enemies. Stacked boxes are basically a nightmare to players and all minions/creeps. Shaco's Deceive is basically a mini flash/stealth so you can go and pick off the squishy AD/AP carries. Deceive is also an amazing escape ability. You can draw enemies out for a false split-push and psyche them out. Moving on to Shaco's ultimate. Shaco's clone does some mad damage and the little explosion at the end is just for good measure - especially with a proper amount of Ability Power that is easily obtainable. Why do I see Shaco as a viable champion? Mainly because of his shiv and boxes. Shiv is on a relatively low cooldown so it's strong damage is spammable. Jack in the Boxes can wreck Baron; Dragon, Creeps, Minions and enemy champions. When you place a box in a bush or lane, every enemy in the vicinity becomes paranoid. What if the enemy just says "Oh, I'll just wait for the box to die off." That's a lot of wasted time and it gives your team essential time to coordinate. kthatsit [/quote] AP Shaco is completely dependent on your opponent making mistakes and tends to usually just be trolling personalities in general. AP Shaco playstyle forces more of a individual nature in how you play Shaco and reduce the amount of teamwork since you're are usually busy laying down JITBs. I like Shaco, I play him a lot. I even do him in rank but AP Shaco doesn't have the same effect as a AD SHaco. Just AD Shaco ability to back door towers alone makes him insane.[/quote]

[quote=Xaioli][quote=UnitedAmerika] [quote=Xaioli] Please enlighten me on why AP Shaco is bad. This game is played way too cookie cutter style. Pick X champion, you're forced to lane this way. Shaco brings a different dynamic to this game. He FORCES players to change their playstyle. There's no more innocent we poke each other lane, all you have to do is set a box in a brush or lane and people are paranoid forever. There's no longer any innocent jungling with you stay on your half, I stay on my half - you take my wraiths, I'll just take yours to be even. No, good shaco players will go and ruin everyone's day. Not only does Shaco force you to change your playstyle by just BEING IN THE GAME but his damage utilities are quite strong. His shiv is a great harass and assassination ability. Shiv is at a 1:1 ratio. That's disturbingly strong. With Shaco's jack in the boxes, you can easily close off chokes and be aware of incoming enemies. Stacked boxes are basically a nightmare to players and all minions/creeps. Shaco's Deceive is basically a mini flash/stealth so you can go and pick off the squishy AD/AP carries. Deceive is also an amazing escape ability. You can draw enemies out for a false split-push and psyche them out. Moving on to Shaco's ultimate. Shaco's clone does some mad damage and the little explosion at the end is just for good measure - especially with a proper amount of Ability Power that is easily obtainable. Why do I see Shaco as a viable champion? Mainly because of his shiv and boxes. Shiv is on a relatively low cooldown so it's strong damage is spammable. Jack in the Boxes can wreck Baron; Dragon, Creeps, Minions and enemy champions. When you place a box in a bush or lane, every enemy in the vicinity becomes paranoid. What if the enemy just says "Oh, I'll just wait for the box to die off." That's a lot of wasted time and it gives your team essential time to coordinate. kthatsit [/quote] AP Shaco is completely dependent on your opponent making mistakes and tends to usually just be trolling personalities in general. AP Shaco playstyle forces more of a individual nature in how you play Shaco and reduce the amount of teamwork since you're are usually busy laying down JITBs. I like Shaco, I play him a lot. I even do him in rank but AP Shaco doesn't have the same effect as a AD SHaco. Just AD Shaco ability to back door towers alone makes him insane. [/quote] I've seen great AD and AP Shacos in ranked play before. They both excel in my honest opinion. It's just I strongly feel that AP is stronger than AD even though AD backdoors a LITTLE faster. AP brings more versatility and tricks for your team. Also, good shacos don't waste 99% of their time laying JITB :P[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Just going in circles at this point, nothing you've said changes the fact that he's a completely opponent-error-reliant champion and that sucks in competitive play.[/quote]

[quote=Xaioli]Many top tiered teams would disagree, DuffTime. I've given facts/opinions on why he's viable and you've given very little on why he's not viable. lolwut[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]The few things I've said have more fact and logic attached to them than the pages of ratios and nonsense you and Jun wrote Xiao. I could ramble on about Xerath's ratios and how when you add them together his ult is like a 1.8 ratio, but at the end of the day his only viability remains in his ability to anti carry- kill the squishy and then what? He's done, he can't do anything else. He can Q and E every 4 seconds or so. At least Xerath has a useful function that will lead to winning games sometimes. Talon- Viable in his ability to assassinate a target or two. Incredibly high AoE damage when fed, and if he lanes against a squishy he cn burst them down immediately. He's strong as a counter pick, and add big damage to a team that will help win fights. Shaco's useless, because his only real viability lies in boxes, shivs, and back dooring with his ult or trying to 1v1 you with his ult. Boxes are not reliable in teamfights. Shiv is a 1 to 1 ratio, which, while that is very high, it's on a 13 second cooldown and is single target. You'll only get to use it twice in a regular teamfight, 3 times in a very long one. If you have 5-600 AP, that's 7-800 damage. After resistances we can assume it's between 300 and 550 damage or so. Two times in a regular fight. That's nothing. That's two crits on a ranged carry. If a box gets four attacks it has the same ratio, which is also not very impressive unless you have 600 AP and four boxes stacked up. How do you plan to reliably activate those boxes mid team fight? If your opponents are savvy at all, you won't be able to. Which top tier team runs Shaco in their tournament matches? I would love to know about the the scrims and tourny matches I've been missing where Shaco is crushing faces. Please, if Shaco were to make an impact in a streamed tournament match, or even just a scrim, he'd be flavor of the month within a week. But he's never going to do that until they modify his kit, because right now- It's completely useless, and all you have to do is play with a grain of intelligence to avoid everything that Shaco brings to the table.[/quote]

[quote=Fox Rage][quote=Xaioli] Please enlighten me on why AP Shaco is bad. This game is played way too cookie cutter style. Pick X champion, you're forced to lane this way. Shaco brings a different dynamic to this game. He FORCES players to change their playstyle. There's no more innocent we poke each other lane, all you have to do is set a box in a brush or lane and people are paranoid forever. There's no longer any innocent jungling with you stay on your half, I stay on my half - you take my wraiths, I'll just take yours to be even. No, good shaco players will go and ruin everyone's day. Not only does Shaco force you to change your playstyle by just BEING IN THE GAME but his damage utilities are quite strong. His shiv is a great harass and assassination ability. Shiv is at a 1:1 ratio. That's disturbingly strong. With Shaco's jack in the boxes, you can easily close off chokes and be aware of incoming enemies. Stacked boxes are basically a nightmare to players and all minions/creeps. Shaco's Deceive is basically a mini flash/stealth so you can go and pick off the squishy AD/AP carries. Deceive is also an amazing escape ability. You can draw enemies out for a false split-push and psyche them out. Moving on to Shaco's ultimate. Shaco's clone does some mad damage and the little explosion at the end is just for good measure - especially with a proper amount of Ability Power that is easily obtainable. Why do I see Shaco as a viable champion? Mainly because of his shiv and boxes. Shiv is on a relatively low cooldown so it's strong damage is spammable. Jack in the Boxes can wreck Baron; Dragon, Creeps, Minions and enemy champions. When you place a box in a bush or lane, every enemy in the vicinity becomes paranoid. What if the enemy just says "Oh, I'll just wait for the box to die off." That's a lot of wasted time and it gives your team essential time to coordinate. kthatsit [/quote] I see your point. The reason AP shaco is so bad, is because his usefulness DEPENDS on the enemy chasing you. If you play agains't any proper player, they WILL NOT chase shaco, or follow the enemy team in bushes that are unwarded, because THEY KNOw that shaco's there with 1 000 000 000 jitb. The proper player will just ignore you guys, and keep pushing, making shaco's jitb uttrely useless, and shaco's usefulness DEPENDS on the jitb. I hope you see what i mean. AP shaco's only good at waiting in a bushe and hoping for someone to go in it by accident.[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]Wish I could get my opinions to sound as though they were fact[/quote]

[quote=Rudmed][quote=Xaioli] Please enlighten me on why AP Shaco is bad. He FORCES players to change their playstyle. There's no more innocent we poke each other lane, all you have to do is set a box in a brush or lane and people are paranoid forever. There's no longer any innocent jungling with you stay on your half, I stay on my half - you take my wraiths, I'll just take yours to be even. No, good shaco players will go and ruin everyone's day. Not only does Shaco force you to change your playstyle by just BEING IN THE GAME but his damage utilities are quite strong. [/quote] RED ALERT! Champion that causes other's to change their playstyle incoming nerfs! Man down the hatches! If that were true Xaioli then he would be nerfed. After all [[twisted fate]] did that, and they took that ability away from him. If Riot thought [[shaco]] was that game changing then he would be nerfed hard. Of course they look at the playstyles, and realized something. If shaco is AP, don't walk into bushes he maybe in. If AD then he will melt unless he has an advantage to you. Shaco may be able to spam shiv, but afterwards he can't really stay in the fight otherwise he is killed. Duff already made the point about JiTB, so not even gonna bring that up. I'm with Duff on this one.[/quote]