let's have a discussion about talon!!!!

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=Luther3000]All I know is that getting one shot in like 0.5 of a second with no counterplay is pretty not fun.[/quote] I guess you'd know that pretty well, huh? :^)[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod]Still haven't seen a single [[talon]] in like 4 months apart from Vapora so I can't have an opinion on the subject :c[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=Vynertje][quote=Vapora Dark] Feels like people are just trying to excuse that no one noticed he was strong for ages. Not that he's ridiculously OP though, the main reason he's getting nerfed is because it's just plain not fun to play against someone who decides your fate in 1 click when he's fed.[/quote] Again, everyone is ignorant of meta shifts going into Talon's favor. 90% of the champions are 100% well balanced but they lose or gain favour based on the metagame. To be more clear: Talon is good in the current metagame because he's one of the champions that can snowball a lead super effectively and stop hypercarries from ramping up by stalling out the game. In regards of competitive play he's still somewhat of a niche pick but in solo queue these are immense powers to possess. Also, the decline in Ziggs play also realllllyy helped talon a lot.[/quote] The metagame is entirely inflated and artificial. The metagame is pretty much entirely based on what riot buff's or nerfs, so naturally when Riot nerfs everything else it's going to go in favor of what they didn't nerf. There are a lot of champions, specifically assassins, that snowball leads extremely effectively especially in solo queue. This isn't isolated to just [[talon]]. [[Ziggs]] play has been declining for a while now, at least in competitive play, I don't think thats the main catalyst behidn it[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][[Talon]] was kinda up for a rework imo. He needed to have his damage toned down, counterplay needed to be introduced, and he needs some mobility. There's plenty of ways to do this without completely altering his kit, but Riot, once again, took the easy route and just removed his silence. As a mid-laner, I'm have mixed feelings about this, because I do like it that Talon is a much easier matchup for most of the mids I play. However, I simply don't agree with the decisions made. I do really like [[Talon]] as a champion and he really has some cool stuff going on. Regarding his position in the current meta. I still think [[Talon]] is far from tier 1, mostly because he just isn't all-round enough. Most other assassins like [[Kassadin]], [[Kha'Zix]], and [[Zed]] simply pack more than just burst and pick potential; they really add something. Also, their laning phases are more stable (doesn't include [[Kha'Zix]] as he's a jungler) and they recover more easily. Now this doesn't mean that [[Talon]] is awful or anything, but he's pretty simplistic in his role and doesn't have really have room to do something else, I mean I suppose he can peel but it's not like he packs a ton of utility. The actions taken by Riot lately are showing a clear sign though; silence is too strong as CC. Well, this is mostly because it (almost) exclusively comes with targeted abilities (e.g. [[Sigil of Silence]] (now [[Sigil of Malice]]), [[Null Sphere]], and [[Cutthroat]]). This generates very little counterplay but I think that the biggest issue is that silence, for some reason, disables summoner spells and item actives. Thus no one can respond with [[Flash]], [[Barrier]], [[Zhonya's Hourglass]], etc. This is essentially what breaks [[Talon]], and not so much the fact you can't respond with your basic abilities, even though that's a pain as well. In short, [[Talon]] is now falling victim to his own archaic design that hails from a time during which targeted CC was very, very common. However, the inherent mechanics behind silence as a whole do play a big role in this. His silence is the issue, but also the only thing that really makes him worth playing. I wish Riot took a less lazy route regarding this and delayed the [[Viktor]] or [[Soraka]] rework to favour [[Talon]]'s. I'm sure that with a few minor reworks, he can still more or less stay the same, but be less toxic, and offer a higher skill ceiling to his summoner.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Mooninites][quote=Vynertje][quote=Vapora Dark] Feels like people are just trying to excuse that no one noticed he was strong for ages. Not that he's ridiculously OP though, the main reason he's getting nerfed is because it's just plain not fun to play against someone who decides your fate in 1 click when he's fed.[/quote] Again, everyone is ignorant of meta shifts going into Talon's favor. 90% of the champions are 100% well balanced but they lose or gain favour based on the metagame. To be more clear: Talon is good in the current metagame because he's one of the champions that can snowball a lead super effectively and stop hypercarries from ramping up by stalling out the game. In regards of competitive play he's still somewhat of a niche pick but in solo queue these are immense powers to possess. Also, the decline in Ziggs play also realllllyy helped talon a lot.[/quote] [[Ziggs]] play has been declining for a while now, at least in competitive play, I don't think thats the main catalyst behidn it[/quote] It's basically every popular mid laner getting nerfed/changed by Riot. [[Zed]] is really big right now because of all those changes, and [[Talon]] also takes advantage of this trend. The [[Orianna]] and [[Ziggs]] nerfs really worked in his favour.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]Yea, it does kind feel like Riot is seeking and destroying most silences. Only ones I don't think will be removed are [[Garen]]'s and [[Cho'Gath]]'s cause they are iconic and not as toxic.[/quote]

[quote=Ninja Trigger][quote=OTGBionicArm]Yea, it does kind feel like Riot is seeking and destroying most silences. Only ones I don't think will be removed are [[Garen]]'s and [[Cho'Gath]]'s cause they are iconic and not as toxic.[/quote] Riot "Today we Silence every Champion in the game. Tomorrow we Silence the WORLD!"[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=OTGBionicArm]Yea, it does kind feel like Riot is seeking and destroying most silences. Only ones I don't think will be removed are [[Garen]]'s and [[Cho'Gath]]'s cause they are iconic and not as toxic.[/quote]oh I think [[Cho'gath]]'s will get removed or changed...[[Garen]]'s is on an auto-attack so they'll probably ignore that one.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=OTGBionicArm]Yea, it does kind feel like Riot is seeking and destroying most silences. Only ones I don't think will be removed are [[Garen]]'s and [[Cho'Gath]]'s cause they are iconic and not as toxic.[/quote] If those champions ever get relevant again, without reworks, then I'm sure they will nerf them or simply remove them.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]And what about [[fiddlesticks]]? This also reminds me on "removing blinds". Why [[Teemo]] doesn't have his removed yet...[/quote]