Last I checked, the bar that you see on your guide page is a simple average - it lets the reader know of the estimated ratio of upvotes to total votes.
The bar that you see on the champion page (that is, the page listing all the guides) uses a bayesian average. It more accurately calculates the ratio of upvotes to total votes for guides that have a low number of total vote.s This is significant because it allows for easier comparison of guides
The bar that you see on the champion page (that is, the page listing all the guides) uses a bayesian average. It more accurately calculates the ratio of upvotes to total votes for guides that have a low number of total vote.s This is significant because it allows for easier comparison of guides
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My Soraka Guide | My Review Service
Thanks a lot for the sig, jhoi! :)
Gonna try to clear up a few things real quick, hope this helps!
That being said we realize that this isn't super clear and we've been looking into what we can do about that. :)
PS: Grats YslayerZ on the featured guide, and hope you're enjoying Overwatch! ;)
- The bar displayed when browsing guides is based on your 20 most recent votes and uses a Bayesian average to calculate its % score
- Bayesian average takes into account the amount of votes currently on the guide. If you don't have enough votes your bar won't show as full even if you have no downvotes. This is to prevent guides with very low votes appearing to have a better score than guides that are above them, since we can't say with confidence a guide with 3/3 votes is better than a guide with 15/16 votes, etc etc. It's a tradeoff between score confidence and clarity about guides with fuller bars being ranked above less full bars.
- In addition to the Bayesian score we use vote decay, which basically pushes out old votes as new votes come in. The threshold for that is 20 votes, so if your guide has less than 20 it won't affect you. This does mean that if you see a guide that has more votes, and their bar isn't full, they probably got some recent downvotes.
- The bar displayed when looking at a specific guide page is its all time score, and it's just a flat %. This is what can cause some confusion between the bar there being different than the bar on the browse page. If the browse page bar is less full than the guide page bar, it probably means that guide got some recent downvotes.
That being said we realize that this isn't super clear and we've been looking into what we can do about that. :)
PS: Grats YslayerZ on the featured guide, and hope you're enjoying Overwatch! ;)
Thanks to GrandMasterD for my sig!
Mowen wrote:
Gonna try to clear up a few things real quick, hope this helps!
That being said we realize that this isn't super clear and we've been looking into what we can do about that. :)
PS: Grats YslayerZ on the featured guide, and hope you're enjoying Overwatch! ;)
- The bar displayed when browsing guides is based on your 20 most recent votes and uses a Bayesian average to calculate its % score
- Bayesian average takes into account the amount of votes currently on the guide. If you don't have enough votes your bar won't show as full even if you have no downvotes. This is to prevent guides with very low votes appearing to have a better score than guides that are above them, since we can't say with confidence a guide with 3/3 votes is better than a guide with 15/16 votes, etc etc. It's a tradeoff between score confidence and clarity about guides with fuller bars being ranked above less full bars.
- In addition to the Bayesian score we use vote decay, which basically pushes out old votes as new votes come in. The threshold for that is 20 votes, so if your guide has less than 20 it won't affect you. This does mean that if you see a guide that has more votes, and their bar isn't full, they probably got some recent downvotes.
- The bar displayed when looking at a specific guide page is its all time score, and it's just a flat %. This is what can cause some confusion between the bar there being different than the bar on the browse page. If the browse page bar is less full than the guide page bar, it probably means that guide got some recent downvotes.
That being said we realize that this isn't super clear and we've been looking into what we can do about that. :)
PS: Grats YslayerZ on the featured guide, and hope you're enjoying Overwatch! ;)
Okay thanks! That cleared it up a little bit for me, albeit I still think the whole system seems kind of strange to me. I mean here I am with 13 votes and a completely filled vote bar when browsing the guides, but then next to my guide is PsiGuard's Nocturne guide that has 13M views and nearly 1,800 votes (93% of which are positive), yet his upvote bar seems to be just shy of 60%. At a glance (at least to people new to the site), it just makes it seem as if his guide has been rated worse than it really is.
I mean since you explained it to me, I understand for the most part why this is, but it just seems a little discouraging that a guide can have a potential to be very successful, yet appear to "fall off," if you will, once it surpasses 20 votes.
And thanks! Like I said, I'm really honored to have been scouted. And yes, I've been having a blast with Overwatch ^.^
Glad it helped. Part of what you must understand is that before this system there were "unmovable" top rated guides that were sometimes very outdated, yet no other guide could surpass them because of their sheer number of votes. This system gives new guides a chance to overcome current top rated guides, but because a guide can get an upvote replaced with a downvote (old upvote goes out, new downvote goes in) there can be swings in vote score even on top guides.
We also try to add other metrics for guide value like # of views, votes, author rank, last update time, etc, since everybody is looking for different things when trying to decide which guide to read.
It is a hard balance to strike and we are always assessing and trying to improve on it. We definitely appreciate getting the feedback from this thread as it helps us know where the confusion is. :)
We also try to add other metrics for guide value like # of views, votes, author rank, last update time, etc, since everybody is looking for different things when trying to decide which guide to read.
It is a hard balance to strike and we are always assessing and trying to improve on it. We definitely appreciate getting the feedback from this thread as it helps us know where the confusion is. :)
Thanks to Minho for my sig!
Ah, that does seem problematic. How about if you were to still apply the Bayesian average, but in a more "behind the scenes" way? Like the vote bar would appear the same both in the guide and while browsing, but the way that the guides were ranked and were ordered while browsing could still be affected by the average.
Then regarding the problem of a 3/3 vote appearing to outclass a 15/16 one, maybe you could use a different color to signify the age of the guide or its overall popularity?
Idk, I know it's a lot of work, but I'm just throwing out an idea. *twiddles thumbs together awkwardly*
Then regarding the problem of a 3/3 vote appearing to outclass a 15/16 one, maybe you could use a different color to signify the age of the guide or its overall popularity?
Idk, I know it's a lot of work, but I'm just throwing out an idea. *twiddles thumbs together awkwardly*
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"Biggest part of these things is that votes expire under the hood. The vote count displayed on your guide will never lessen, but old votes no longer count towards the rating of your guide. Votes can be "refreshed" by "revoting" on the guide though, but nobody really does that. So most of the votes on the other guide have probably expired."
NO BECAUSE THE LAST 20 VOTES DON'T DECAY SO HE'D STILL HAVE 20 UPVOTES IDIOT
"I can imagine "featured" being based on sudden bursts of views and votes rather than simply a high rating though."
NO BECAUSE GUIDES BECOME FEATURED WHEN THEY RECEIVE A SCOUT SCORE OF 2 OR MORE IDIOT
YOU CALL YOURSELF A MOBAFIRE REGULAR???? IDIOT
Where do you get this information? I was pretty sure I knew what was going on. Can't imagine featured still being decided by scouts.
EDIT: Also pretty sure I'm just an forum / off topic regular at best :^)