Need some tips to improve as a main support player

[quote=Toshabi][youtube]mQkbVN_rA28[/youtube] This thread.[/quote]

[quote=SOAC Bas][quote=Stomper] As a last ditch effort to get this thread back on topic, can someone tell me after what threshold (be it item, or champion levels) does it become undesirable for a support to trade autos with an ADC? [/quote] Anyways, once an ADC gets a Vamp Scepter most supports shouldn't want to AA trade with them anymore. Exceptions are supports who can periodically come in and do a small bit of burst now and then like Sona, and Thresh. [/quote] I would second that though I tend to find any tankier support like thresh can trade okay until the adc gets a high damage item. Generally all things being even you should probably stop trading AA's after their second trip back if no one has died. [quote=sirell] Oh look. Changing definitions to suit your own needs again. How did I not see that coming. Oh wait, I did. [/quote] I am unsure as to what you mean. I think you really need to look up what changing definitions means. I never said you afk next to someone. You took the word passive and immediately implied it meant afk which it never does. When does passive ever mean afk? Just because you think it does doesn't make it true. I never changed anything I had to clearly define passive to you because you clearly were not grasping how passive and afk are not equal. Why in the world would anyone recommend going afk if your adc is passively farming. If I say my adc is playign passive does that mean he isn't even auto attacking? Come on! When your adc is playing passive (solely last hitting, and worrying more about cs than poking the opposing laner as everyone understands except you this to mean), you should play passive as well (warding, zoning, occassional pokes). If he is an aggressive laner (constantly trying to trade and engaging on all attempts to cc as most people except you assume this means) than you should follow suit and play more aggressively. If you don't you will hurt your lane. How you took this to mean anything beyond this has nothing to do with me and everything to do with you being incapable of admitting that you jumped to conclusions based on a misrepresentation of facts. I freely admit I was wrong about jinx being a non AA trade champ early game based on the fact that I completely spaced out that his Q rockets count as AA. I was wrong Jinx is an AA trader so Doran's Shield makes more sense in that matchup.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]i think that what sirell is trying to say is that zoning and poking is aggressive, not passive, just because youre not going all in doesnt mean youre passive[/quote]

[quote=SOAC Bas][quote=DillButt64] i think that what sirell is trying to say is that zoning and poking is aggressive, not passive, just because youre not going all in doesnt mean youre passive [/quote] That's his definition. But that's not the general definition. I can reverse it and say that zoning and an occasional poke is not aggressive. In every other lane going all in is considered aggressive play while last hitting while zoning and occasionally poking while waiting for jungle is considered passive. Why would the support be any different?[/quote]

[quote=sirell]There's no point trying to talk to him. He puts words and implication in people's mouths and completely misconstrues what is said (really odd that he extrapolates three to four paragraphs worth of stuff that I 95% didn't even say nor imply). Then he aptly comes up with definitions which he claims are 'general definitions' when this really isn't the case. He sets rules in stone that aren't even rules. I mean, support playing aggressive and ADC playing passive will hurt the lane how, exactly (watch as he concocts a definition and a scenario which will conveniently suit him)? And by the time he's done, his original point has already disappeared, so why even bother continuing?[/quote]

[quote=luizdeh]Discussing whether [[annie]]s auto a lot... FUN. And idiotic. Everything else is fine. Keep at it! About the support harassing with autos thing: never stop if you have range advantage. If you don't, stop only if you are losing lane, you are afraid of losing lane or the ADC is smart and trades effectively. This is not a simple matter of 'oh ADC got BF so I gotta stop harass' kind of thing. You just lose presence by doing nothing if you're not someone that can harass like a mofo with spells or some [[leona]] type shit that can all-in in a moment's notice.[/quote]

[quote=Nebrasketball]I think it's more of a risk-reward thing for the continued auto's. If by getting into auto range you become vulnerable to being 100-0'd then very rarely is it worth the auto. Typically, this would be: if you're baiting for your jungler, they are terribly out of position and you know their jungler is not nearby, or they are to low to engage. When I was silver, it was easier to be aggressive because a lot of people make poor positional choices in lane and you can abuse that. It's become a bad habit for me however, as now in higher gold I am not respecting their positional play and getting baited into bad engages. As for the comment about LCS auto harass, there is a lot of haress levels 1-3, then it dies down as the opposing lane gets decent kill potential in a 2v2 situation, and almost assured kill potential if their jungler is there. So the reward of 50 dmg is just not the risk of dying.[/quote]