Preseason 2015 experimental discussion will hit...

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=NicknameMy]I didn't say it was worse than crit, nothing is worse than crit. But it could cause some problems at other places as well where nobody expects them.[/quote] I doubt it, none of the assassins really use crit chance in a way that would make this a ton stronger. Maybe they should just remove crit from Youmuu's then, and change it slightly to compensate.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]And from Atma's, cuz why the hell it has that stat? And then let [[atma's impaler]] build out of [[chain vest]] + [[brutalizer]], cuz that combo fits the item most. 45 armor, 10% CDR, 10 Armorpen Unique Passive. AD as 2% of your maximum health or 1.75% of your maximum health, depending on if 2% is too much. [[Youmuu's ghostblade]] could then build out of [[brutalizer]] and 2 [[dagger]] 30 AD, 10% CDR, 10 Armorpen, 10% Attack Speed, 5% Movement Speed Active now gives 30% Attack Speed and 15% Movement speed This way, the item would be more usefull outside of its active, at cost of some armorpen. As we all know tanks are currently in a bad spot, 2 more changes to adress that: [[last whisper]]: Armorpen reduced to 30% [[the black cleaver]]: Now can only stack up to 4 times. A general nerf to armorpen as this destroys all the tanks. I mean, what is the worth of a tank if he dies in like 2 seconds lategame?[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=NicknameMy]And from Atma's, cuz why the hell it has that stat? And then let [[atma's impaler]] build out of [[chain vest]] + [[brutalizer]], cuz that combo fits the item most. 45 armor, 10% CDR, 10 Armorpen Unique Passive. AD as 2% of your maximum health or 1.75% of your maximum health, depending on if 2% is too much. [[Youmuu's ghostblade]] could then build out of [[brutalizer]] and 2 [[dagger]] 30 AD, 10% CDR, 10 Armorpen, 10% Attack Speed, 5% Movement Speed Active now gives 30% Attack Speed and 15% Movement speed This way, the item would be more usefull outside of its active, at cost of some armorpen.[/quote] I think Atma's needs to be removed or reworked completely, the item's volatile nature is something to keep in mind. On youmuu's, not sure. Might as well just add some attack damage, that way it's still neat for assassins but isn't likely to get out of hand.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=NicknameMy]A general nerf to armorpen as this destroys all the tanks. I mean, what is the worth of a tank if he dies in like 2 seconds lategame?[/quote] It's not about tanks, it's about the bruisers. The penetration changes were originally made because bruisers were next to impossible to deal with. Once they had acquired a few items, they stopped taking damage. Honestly I think we need more sources of % penetration and/or a sub-tier for the % pen items. This way [[Last Whisper]] and [[Void Staff]] can become more late-game items, or maybe more niche rather than "It's crazy efficient, must have".[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Yeah, that would be also a good change, so give it something like that: New Item: Blade of Gold 15 attack damage [[long sword]] + 440 gold +3 gold per 10 seconds +2 gold per kill Does not stack with [[avarice blade]]. [[youmuu's ghostblade]] Blade of Gold + [[brutalizer]] 50 attack damage instead of 30, rest the same. I think the main problem is actually percentage penetration. Percentage Penetration rather counters tanks with super high resistances and not bruisers with medium resistances. Either make the items so it just has flat penetartion or make it an antiproportional curve which basically offers less armorpen the more armor you have. Basically, if the enemy has 150 armor, you should get 75 armorpen. If the enemy has 200 Armor, you should get 50 armorpen. If the enemy has 300 Armor, you should get 25 armorpen and so on. This means, tanks can no longer be shredded, but bruisers can. Because if a bruiser builds that much armor, he likely has no more damage or lacks other resistances.[/quote]

[quote=utopus]What if - and hear me out - What if riot made some item that gave purely defensive stats, that would give some base defenses, +[i]n%[/i] increased bonus armor or magic resistance. It would not be good on bruisers, as they prefer to have a mix of damage & defenses. The tank item would scale off off only bonus defenses, so they would not take as full advantage of it compared to full tanks, that build defensively right from the get-go[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=utopus]What if - and hear me out - What if riot made some item that gave purely defensive stats, that would give some base defenses, +[i]n%[/i] increased bonus armor or magic resistance. It would not be good on bruisers, as they prefer to have a mix of damage & defenses. The tank item would scale off off only bonus defenses, so they would not take as full advantage of it compared to full tanks, that build defensively right from the get-go[/quote] Isn't that the whole idea behind the spirit of the ancient golem?[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Didn't I made an item like that before? [[chain vest]]+[[null-magic mantle]]+[[ruby crystal]] 40 armor, 20 MR Unique Passive: 15% increased resistances Unique Active Melee only: 40% movement speed for yourself for 3 seconds. Ancient Golem has some mayor problems, it is just the wrong item for that: 1. Jungle Item, tanks go top currently 2. Completly useless jungle effect 3. Why the hell would you get dat shit, it is totally useless early that demands that you get it early?[/quote]

[quote=utopus][quote=Vynertje] Isn't that the whole idea behind the spirit of the ancient golem?[/quote] Yes. Except that this item would give a mid game power spike to champions who itemize exclusively tankiness. SotAG is exclusively for tanky junglers, and hasn't been benefitting those who buy it.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]I got now an even better idea for [[last whisper]]/[[void staff]]: Every armor until 50 gets reduced by 45%, every armor between 50 and 100 gets reduced by 35% and so on. This caps at 15%. So if you have 150 armor, following happens: 50*0.55+50*0.65+50*0.75=97.5 Armor That is basically the same as 35%. 200 Armor: 50*0.55+50*0.65+50*0.75+50*0.85=140 That is basically the same as 30%. 300 armor: 50*0.55+50*0.65+50*0.75+150*0.85=225 That is basically the same as 25%. As you can see, this way, bruisers are way harder affected by penetration than tanks. As for cleaver, it should penetrate 7/6/5/4/3/2/1% per stack, after the same calculation. Also, penetration from masteries gets flat again and this will only affect penetrations on champion abilities that do not want to shredd tanks. Trundle for example will keep his current scalings, as he is meant to destroy tanks. This way, there is no items to counter tanky as fuck teamcomps, the champion will do. This way, champion versatility will be increased as well.[/quote]