Request for help regarding role and improving...

[quote=VexRoth]Hoping to get some guidance as I feel like I'm really struggling in ranked of late and I'm not sure what to do about it. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=VexRoth Some things I know I need to work on: 1) Appropriate use of force (e.g.,, if you don't need your ultimate to get a kill don't use it) 2) Tabbing to check the stats board (so I don't try 1v1ing the fed Teemo) 3) Being closer to the action around the map (I have an aversion to being on the enemy side of the map with no or limited ward coverage). I'm struggling with which roles to play since I'm basically forced into playing two roles with Dynamic Queue. My preferred role is jungle. I have the most experience there which means that that my knowledge of lane match-ups, proper trading, and wave management could use work. I realize one thing that I can do is narrow my champion pool, but I find that I get bored with playing the same champions all the time. It doesn't mean that I won't do exactly that if it helps me climb though. For the last month or two I've been primarily queuing as jungle primary and ADC secondary because going fill or support gets me support 98% of the time. However being ADC involves working with a support and damn if that isn't hard to pull off reliably when you are with a new support every game. Which is leaning me more toward pursuing Top or Mid. In preseason I did a stint in Top lane with the likes of Dr. Mundo, Sion, and Renekton and....my Top lane needs work, but I think less work than Mid. Of course that champion pool was pre Top lane Quinn, Vayne, or Graves. Go freaking back Bot lane assholes, I have a strategic wet noodle fight to get to and you are screwing it up with your oppressive ranged poke. Ugh, given how snowbally games are I kind of feel like you just need to stay on Top of what is OP and simply change out your champion pool as needed which sort of belies the advice of picking champions to main and learning them inside and out. So anyone have any thoughts on how I should approach this? Champions I can play with some facility. Jungle Aatrox - 90% Amumu Cho'Gath - 5% Diana - 95% Dr. Mundo - 5% Ekko Elise (low win rate) Evelynn Fiddlesticks Fizz - 99% Gragas Hecarim Illaoi (I know...but I felt like trying it when she came out). Jarvan IV Jax Kha'zix Master Yi (Zzzz) Nautilus - 80% (or 0%) Nocturne Nunu Rek'Sai (low win rate) Shyvana Sion - 5% Skarner Tahm Kench - 90% Trundle - 85% Tryndamere - 90% Udyr Vi Warwick (takes too long to ramp up IMO) Wukong - 80% Volibear Zac Support Annie - 85% Blitzcrank Braum Leona Morgana - 90% Nami Nautilus - 20% (or 100%) Taric (zzzzz, has trouble with multiple threats, don't like him in his current incarnation) Tahm Kench - 10% Thresh (basics, still work to do on flay) Trundle - 1% (one game but it was fun) Vel'koz 95% ADC Caitlyn Corki 99% Ezreal Graves Sivir Tristana Top Aatrox - 10% Dr. Mundo - 95% Cho'gath - 85% Irelia Lissandra - 50% Yorick - 99% Renekton Sion - 95% Tryndamere - 10% Trundle - 14% Vladimir - 99% Wukong - 20% Mid Annie - 15% Cho'gath - 10% Corki - 1% Diana - 5% Fizz - 1% Kassadin Lissandra - 50% Morgana - 10% Talon Viktor Vel'koz - 5% Vladimir - 1% Yorick - 1% (can at least keep Yasuo in check)[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu]Try stuff out in normals and try to find comfortable picks for you. The champions don't really matter (unless they are way too weak) if you can play them properly. I also recommend learning two roles really well and having, at least, one role that you can play decently on your level. Sadly you are on NA (if memory serves) so I can't give you more counselling on the client itself. And most of the stuff you said yourself is quite correct. Narrower champion pool is easier to learn but can also become somewhat boring. You have identified your problems which makes fixing them a lot easier.[/quote]

[quote=Ekki]That looks like a huge champion pool. I'd say too big to be practical. I agree that playing a lot with the same champions can be boring, but the optimal strategy to climb is to focus on a limited set of picks for your two best lanes. If, for example, you're not playing ranked with one of your best 5 junglers because you are bored of them you'll be underperforming on a whim. Personally, I only play rankeds to win in a competitive environment, so I can't be bothered if I'm bored since my priority is winning, not having fun. Not saying having fun in rankeds is bad nor hard to do, but if having fun is your priority it necesarily means winning is not your priority. If you tryhard and only play your best picks in ranked you'll climb faster. That is, of course, unless one of your best picks is REALLY boring to the point that you underperform in attempts to have at least a bit of fun (happened to me with [[nasus]] very often). You can say that being bored of a champion/role makes you underperform a bit (it does), but I doubt it's more than what you underperform by playing that champion you haven't played in the last 100 games but really felt like playing today. I guess if you get bored too fast you can pick a big pool and rotate your roles, but you need to have a pool and clear priorities within it. Also, playing 3, 4 or all roles isn't too suboptimal, since the experience you gain in every lane broadens your strategic knowledge of the game and allows you to plan ahead much more easily. EDIT: Last note, if you're not sure which champions to "main" for each role, just try whoever is most OP right now.[/quote]

[quote=VexRoth][quote=Janitsu]Try stuff out in normals and try to find comfortable picks for you. The champions don't really matter (unless they are way too weak) if you can play them properly. I also recommend learning two roles really well and having, at least, one role that you can play decently on your level. Sadly you are on NA (if memory serves) so I can't give you more counselling on the client itself. And most of the stuff you said yourself is quite correct. Narrower champion pool is easier to learn but can also become somewhat boring. You have identified your problems which makes fixing them a lot easier.[/quote] Oh, I've tried it all. Even [[Azir]]. That is a champion that does not feel comfortable at all to me. The only champion I haven't played yet is [[Jhin]] though I own him. Yeah, I am on NA. Though I will try to post up some more links to replays here in the near future. Would you recommend crossover champions? E.g. if they can jungle or lane then use that champion because they can do both? I've been playing a lot of [[Fizz]] jungle of late only in normals though and I'm really enjoying him. However, the times I've laned with him have been less pleasant. In the jungle you usually get to skip fighting people for the first three levels or so which are really tedious moments for Fizz in lane. And as another example I enjoy [[Trundle]] but I found that supporting him with him was more interesting than playing him in the jungle or the top lane. Though there I suspect there a bit of novelty factor since I've only done it once.[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu]There are some nifty champs that can play more than one role well but I don't think there is too many of them ([[Fizz]], [[Trundle]] and [[lulu]] come into mind). I think rankeds are basically playing what you are the most comfortable with that you can pick in that situation. I, for example, mainly play ADC, Mid and support (ADC [[Lucian]], Mid [[Yasuo]] or [[lux]], Support [[thresh]] or [[nami]] above all but I can play pretty much anyone to somewhat decent level) but whenever I am forced to play top, I'll pick either [[gnar]] or [[renekton]] since they are my comfort picks. Whenever I am forced to jungle, I play [[nidalee]] because she is my comfort pick. I might not be as effective as someone else would be in the role, but at least I can deter my own feeding and have a chance to win.[/quote]

[quote=VexRoth][quote=Ekki]That looks like a huge champion pool. I'd say too big to be practical. I agree that playing a lot with the same champions can be boring, but the optimal strategy to climb is to focus on a limited set of picks for your two best lanes. If, for example, you're not playing ranked with one of your best 5 junglers because you are bored of them you'll be underperforming on a whim. Personally, I only play rankeds to win in a competitive environment, so I can't be bothered if I'm bored since my priority is winning, not having fun. Not saying having fun in rankeds is bad nor hard to do, but if having fun is your priority it necesarily means winning is not your priority. If you tryhard and only play your best picks in ranked you'll climb faster. That is, of course, unless one of your best picks is REALLY boring to the point that you underperform in attempts to have at least a bit of fun (happened to me with [[nasus]] very often). You can say that being bored of a champion/role makes you underperform a bit (it does), but I doubt it's more than what you underperform by playing that champion you haven't played in the last 100 games but really felt like playing today. I guess if you get bored too fast you can pick a big pool and rotate your roles, but you need to have a pool and clear priorities within it. Also, playing 3, 4 or all roles isn't too suboptimal, since the experience you gain in every lane broadens your strategic knowledge of the game and allows you to plan ahead much more easily. EDIT: Last note, if you're not sure which champions to "main" for each role, just try whoever is most OP right now.[/quote] Re OP champs. Sigh I tried that. Just having settled on a jungle pool of [[Shyvana]], [[Udyr]], and [[Volibear]] because I seem to be able to win those champions win I can get them. And incoming nerfs to Shyvana and indirectly Udyr with nerfs to [[Enchantment: Runic Echoes]]. That leaves [[Volibear]] untouched for now, but it likely means he will get moved to pick or ban status. Of late I've had the most fun playing [[Fizz]] jungle. He has trouble with tanks and a bit of lag between blowing someone up and his abilities coming off cool down, but I kind of like the fact that you don't really need your laner to kill a gank target with him even without your ultimate if you play your cards right. Oh and the demoralizing effect for the enemy team of hearing [[Fizz]] got a double kill is not to be scoffed at. I also like [[Evelynn]] jungle though she is definitely team reliant especially as the game goes on. A full five man stealth flank ult is pretty satisfying, not to mention ignoring [[Stealth Ward]]s. Other champion I find enjoyable and are [[Sion]]. Unstoppable meat shield is pretty entertaining. And [[Lissandra]] aka "Freeze! I said freeze![/quote]

[quote=Ekki]The OP advice was only as a last resource when you have a large pool to decide from and want to start filtering champions from it. Just trying the OP champions doesn't work unless you're in high elo (like, almost-pro elo). You should make a list of champions you enjoy playing and then order them in OP-ness order. You can then swap some of them based on your performance because, you know, you're actually looking to win more games :P[/quote]

[quote=jokersprank]I just checked your op.gg. Before I want to say that I have almost no experience with ranked but maybe my perspective gives you an idea. That said I think you shouldn't play [[sivir]]. Not because of your KDA with her but rather her playstyle. She is in my opinion pretty team reliant. Every ADC is team reliant but she has an ultimate for engaging. And I think that's the problem! In soloq the communication is weaker and people react much slower. Probably, your team gets more often caught and you have to waste it for that. Wasting spells is no problem, however, it must give you an advantage. If you don't trust your support I would suggest playing more [[caitlyn]]. The reason why I like her is her long range. I can poke the enemy and farm safely. I do not need to rely on my support for me to get gold as long as he doesn't die. Honestly, you should play [[quinn]]. Shits on everyone if played well. For mid I always recommend [[ahri]]. She does nothing extraordinary good but she does everything. Roaming mids are good to snowball lanes. Furthermore, she has a game changing CC and mobility. The kit is very forgiving. Currently, I think Kat is in a pretty good spot right now. I think she should be able to get you out of silver. However, you have to be really good with her since she can't carry late game without a reliant team. So, you have to stomp them pretty much. For the other roles I have not enough knowledge. Hope my opinion helps you. My advice is to play champs that don't need much babysitting because you seem to have problems to fully trust you support. Til then gl in soloq :)[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=VexRoth] Ugh, given how snowbally games are I kind of feel like you just need to stay on Top of what is OP and simply change out your champion pool as needed which sort of belies the advice of picking champions to main and learning them inside and out. So anyone have any thoughts on how I should approach this? Champions I can play with some facility. Jungle Diana Ekko Hecarim Jarvan IV Nocturne Shyvana Skarner Udyr Vi Volibear Mid Annie Cho'gath Corki Morgana Talon Viktor Vel'koz[/quote] You do not need to pick up OP champions to win soloqueue games. The fact that you listed sooo many champions tells me that you're either bad at all of them or you don't know which one's you're good with. I understand it can be boring to play only a few champions, but that's how you climb. Find the ones you love the best or the ones that work the best and put a lot more time into them. It sounds like mid is your best bet as a secondary role. I suggest picking up to 4 junglers and 2 mid laners and practice and play those in ranked. The ones I kept in the list above are champions I believe can have a strong impact in soloqueue games and don't take absurd amounts of skill to play. For example, your pool might look like this: [icon=Shyvana size=30] [icon=Volibear size=30] [icon=Jarvan IV size=30] [icon=Udyr size=30] [icon=Vel'Koz size=30] [icon=Morgana size=30] Notice how you can incorporate some meta picks (Shyvana and Vel'Koz have great win rates atm) without just changing your pool every patch to fit whatever's strongest in the meta.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing][quote] Ugh, given how snowbally games are I kind of feel like you just need to stay on Top of what is OP and simply change out your champion pool as needed which sort of belies the advice of picking champions to main and learning them inside and out. [/quote] No. Not true. you have too much focus on the meta and parts of the game that are irrelevant to your elo. The "meta" only starts to have a rising impact in your games as you start to climb in plat, diamond. [quote] Some things I know I need to work on: 1) Appropriate use of force (e.g.,, if you don't need your ultimate to get a kill don't use it) 2) Tabbing to check the stats board (so I don't try 1v1ing the fed Teemo) 3) Being closer to the action around the map (I have an aversion to being on the enemy side of the map with no or limited ward coverage). [/quote] you will fix a lot these a lot faster if you limit your champion pool / roles. At your current rank you are playing too many champions and switching too many roles, and while each new game may feel fresh for you as you are learning stuff about each champ, you are actually setting yourself behind by not mastering the fundamentals of the gameplay. Stick to a select few champions in at most 2 roles and focus on your decision making related to those champions. For example, if you're jungling, you should work on understanding fundamentals of the role (gank opportunities, pushing for objectives, countergank opportunities, when to farm, what routes to choose, etc) along with a certain level of comfort in playing your champion. That should get you to plat / diamond by itself.[/quote]