Roaming Meta?

[quote=KillaTheNinja][quote=theBMB] too bad maokai is just bad in general but the roaming meta dissapeared because it is easily countered with wards/map awareness/not overextending. If it's working for you it's because you're playing against teams who don't know what they're doing. [/quote] If that were the case then jungling wouldn't be viable due to those factors, but clearly that's not the case. I don't know why roaming fell off myself.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]I think it was the GP/10 nerfs but, I can't really be sure.[/quote]

[quote=theBMB][quote=KillaTheNinja] [quote=theBMB] too bad maokai is just bad in general but the roaming meta dissapeared because it is easily countered with wards/map awareness/not overextending. If it's working for you it's because you're playing against teams who don't know what they're doing. [/quote] If that were the case then jungling wouldn't be viable due to those factors, but clearly that's not the case. I don't know why roaming fell off myself. [/quote] you don't seem to understand, junglers have a way of sustaining their exp and gold income, they're not completely reliant on kills and leeching exp from lanes that they wander into. If a roamer does not get a solid gank that results in a kill on a regular basis, the roamer becomes useless as they begin to fall far behind in CS and levels. The things I mentioned counter roaming because they prevent the roamer from ganking, if a jungler can't gank they can at least stay in the jungle to continue gaining exp while waiting for an opportunity.[/quote]

[quote=KillaTheNinja][quote=theBMB] [quote=KillaTheNinja] [quote=theBMB] too bad maokai is just bad in general but the roaming meta dissapeared because it is easily countered with wards/map awareness/not overextending. If it's working for you it's because you're playing against teams who don't know what they're doing. [/quote] If that were the case then jungling wouldn't be viable due to those factors, but clearly that's not the case. I don't know why roaming fell off myself. [/quote] you don't seem to understand, junglers have a way of sustaining their exp and gold income, they're not completely reliant on kills and leeching exp from lanes that they wander into. If a roamer does not get a solid gank that results in a kill on a regular basis, the roamer becomes useless as they begin to fall far behind in CS and levels. The things I mentioned counter roaming because they prevent the roamer from ganking, if a jungler can't gank they can at least stay in the jungle to continue gaining exp while waiting for an opportunity. [/quote]Usually, the standard roaming characters begins roaming around level 4 or after they get a certain necessary item (Eve+Sheen before the nerf). By level 4 an Alistar, Eve, Shaco, Irelia (wasn't she a roamer?) can easily survive off the jungle at decent speeds, and they're all pretty good counter-junglers (insert past-tense for Eve) as well. Again, if wards is the only thing stopping roaming, then they should be stopping jungling as well, but they're not. A smart roamer/jungler can and will get Oracles to counter wards...and then the laners are left with map awareness and guessing. Sure they can try not pushing the lane to avoid getting ganked, but if just not pushing your lane actually worked at countering ganks then jungling wouldn't even be viable, but again that's not the case. There are too many variables in LoL to say wards/map awareness/not overextending is what counter roaming. The nerf to GP5 items seems like a more plausible possibility.[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995][quote=theBMB] My problems with Maokai: -ha has no natural tankiness built into his abilities besides his ult, which provides extremely lackluster damage mitigation and is rather easy to escape from. There's is nothing "scary" about his ult even if it used for the damage, it provides no real threat to the enemy team. Not to mention that his ult is basically a toggle with a 45 sec cooldown.[/quote] His ultimate is bad, but there's plenty of tanky champs that aren't inheritly tanky - for instance, amumu has no defense built into his set (besides CC, but maokai has CC too), but his kit is built around being tanky so that's how you build him. I'd say that 20% AoE CC reduction counts as built-in survivability, and it can help in a team fight (though not a whole lot). [quote] -If you play him as a tank, he has all around lackluster survivability compared to AP tanks like singed, galio, or even rumble who isn't even a tank. [/quote] I don't know what champion you're playing, but when I build tanky (or even off-tanky), I'm plenty survivable. [quote] -His base stats and scaling leave much to be desired. [/quote] Maokai's base stats compared to amumu: + 57 more health. Maokai has worse base health but he breaks even at level 8 and passes amumu at level 9. - .2 less health regen than amumu + 30 more base mana and 138 more mana at level 18 than amumu - 1.4 less mana regen per 5 than amumu + 11 more base AD and 2 more AD at level 18 than amumu + Same amount of base armor and 12.6 more armor at level 18 than amumu (maokai has RIDICULOUS scaling AD, 90 at level 18) = Same base MR + 25 more range = Same move speed I don't see what you mean; one of the most potent tanks currently has worse base stats in almost every category. Moreover, maokai has so much scaling AD that flat armor seals usually means you don't have to buy armor until way late game. I think you're doing something wrong, because I can get away with getting only a philo stone, a heart of gold, and a trinity force as defense until much ~30 minutes into the game. [quote] The reason why I hate maokai so much is because I was super excited for him, bought him first week and then I realized he sucked. Even when they buffed him, they didn't target the reasons WHY he sucked, just gave him random buffs. If they want to fix him, they for one need to change his ult so that it travels with him instead of being placed on the ground, the size is too small for it to just stay in once place like that. [/quote] The reason he isn't good is because of his incredibly underwhelming ultimate. His Q is good (decently good in a fight, the range is bad), his W is great, his E is FANTASTIC when you land it, but it isn't guaranteed. I'm not sure if that fix would work - it might make him ridiculously OP, and that's why they haven't done it yet. Either way, I agree that maokai isn't phenomenal (chu8 plays him competitively at high elo, but I'm not sure why no one else does), and he could use some work, but he's still potent enough to be viable in ranked play.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]A pure roamer is not viable, you can end up seriously underleveled. Though, with [[Alistar]] whose abilities are one-point-wonders, you can still exert a certain amount of influence even if you're a few levels behind. Roaming is something everyone should learn to do a little while laning. If your enemy recalls, push the lane up to the turret, then go to a side lane for a gank. This causes pressure on enemies, even if they call MIAs, because their lane can't be as aggressive and must be wary of the mia. Even if you don't actually gank and went around to scout, grab creep camps or what not.[/quote]

[quote=TheJohn]From all roamers, I like Eve (before patch) and Twitch. I just got Twitch, and its kinda difficult because he needs some items, but the rest is simple. lvl 5 boots and another good item, maybe BF or executioners. Eve is a lot easier, she could stun and her damage with sheen was really good. Another champ who can do the ganking work well is Poppy, but you need so ass to leave your lane and start roaming as Poppy. I prefer to stay and lvl, tryed some ganks already though and did well.[/quote]

[quote=Urscythe][quote=theBMB] 1300 ELO isn't actually low, it's pretty average, but still top 50% My problems with Maokai: -If you play him as a caster, he's too squishy compared to his damage output and he's required to be really close to the enemies for 3 of his abilities to actually do anything -ha has no natural tankiness built into his abilities besides his ult, which provides extremely lackluster damage mitigation and is rather easy to escape from. There's is nothing "scary" about his ult even if it used for the damage, it provides no real threat to the enemy team. Not to mention that his ult is basically a toggle with a 45 sec cooldown. -If you play him as a tank, he has all around lackluster survivability compared to AP tanks like singed, galio, or even rumble who isn't even a tank. -His base stats and scaling leave much to be desired. The reason why I hate maokai so much is because I was super excited for him, bought him first week and then I realized he sucked. Even when they buffed him, they didn't target the reasons WHY he sucked, just gave him random buffs. If they want to fix him, they for one need to change his ult so that it travels with him instead of being placed on the ground, the size is too small for it to just stay in once place like that. [/quote] You can quite easily get 600+ dmg pikmin and still have very respectable resists along with a pretty decent amount of CDR.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=KillaTheNinja] I don't know why roaming fell off myself. [/quote] Cause the AD / Support meta came up and champions weren't able to 1v2 and farm.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=Trojan995] The reason he isn't good is because of his incredibly underwhelming ultimate. [/quote] I don't even... Maokai's ultimate is not bad.[/quote]