Throatslasher's list of champs that aren't viable

[quote=throatslasher][quote=PsiGuard] I don't disagree, but what is your opinion of [[warwick]]? He's the other champion that immobilizes himself in order to use his primary source of damage and CC. [/quote] I think warwick is way better than malz in terms of ult strength, but he's a poor jungler for a few reasons. #1 awful, AWFUL cleartimes #2 his ganks before 6 are awful #3 cannot counterjungle #4 doesn't respond well to getting counterjungled #5 has to start blue for the most part #6 low damage until uber-late While any one of these things aren't terrible, combined they make him really weak. Compare him to nocturne. Noc has sick cleartimes and can gank as early as level 3 with double buff. When he hits 6, his ganking power increased ten-fold. Warwick ult is a great initiator for teamfights because even though you may get focused for using it, you should be pretty tanky by the time teamfight stage roles around, so it's ok. But you don't see warwick junglers in 1800+ elo. When was the last time you saw WW jungle in high elo stream? I didn't put ww on the list because he is arguably the strongest level 6 ganker, but he's just not in the meta right now.[/quote]

[quote=Anastasios]How about Urgot? If i rememner correctly, he was used earlier this year in some tournies.[/quote]

[quote=TheLastWolf]@throatslasher And another time the argument of the tournaments...Well, that item is the main reason of Malza not been used in tournaments, but there is a big diference between suck and unviable. And don´t say that Malzahar is poor in TF. Ok, he have to stun himslef, but he can destroy a tank in seconds. Combine R+W and the hp drops in seconds. That´s the truth of Malza. Maybe you wrote a guide, but you have your opinion and I have mine, and I think malzahar is perfectly viable. And for that rule of the item, Malzahar is terrible when Gangplank is on the other team... Ah, and about the tournament...Don´t use it like the truth of universe. There are champions good for tournaments, good for Ranked and good for playing. If some champions are not used in tournaments is not because of they beeing terrible...Just because that´s not their zone or they are to risky...And seriously, I don´t know what do you think about [[Viktor]], but I would like to see the face of all his haters if Riot repairs some bugs, because he would be used in so much tournaments.[/quote]

[quote=Vavena]Good job lol.[/quote]

[quote=The Overmyynd]Sigh... wow. ok. [[akali]] is fairly situational, ill give you that, but ive got a friend that mains her, and i see him getting into the +10-20 KD ratio very consistently. But i will agree that [[diana]] mid is scary as balls if you play her right against the right champion. [[draven]]- I happen to agree, surprisingly. [[annie]]- Also fairly agree, but a good one can still shit on people not expecting her to be decent. [[fiora]] is scary as fuck. Gets countered by champs like [[riven]] and [[malphite]] but she doesnt even need to be FED, just farmed fairly decently, to be a menace that scales retardedly into late game, and can wipe an entire team straight under their turret. I disagree with your assessment here. [[heimerdinger]] is a pussy MOST of the time, but damn if he knows his shit and is on a team with a good jungler your mid lane is going to have a bad time. Altho most of the time I agree, he gets outclassed pretty hard. Just because [[karma]] support isnt seen that often, doesnt mean she isnt good. And in the last 2 months or so, i havent won a single game when i had a [[lulu]] support. She can literally do every role in the game, but she just isnt that good at any of it. A good [[karma]] support building AP instead of the traditional gp10 leading to a [[randuin's omen]] and [[locket of the iron solari]] et cetera et cetera provides HUGE burst during teamfights, and arguably the most utility of any support, vying for top position with a select few champs like [[zilean]]. [[lux]] and [[morgana]] are like apples and oranges. Idk how you could compare the two. The biggest difference is, i'm scared of lux, and not at all afraid of morgana. Lux has a hyper aggressive harassment lane, and morgana sits back and laughs as she surpasses you in CS while sitting totally safe at her turret. Both are useful in their own way, and both can be scary as hell late game. I too have mixed feelings about [[malzahar]]. That surpress is irritating beyond believe and he can silence an entire team, but players seem to be really hit or miss. Sadly i also agree with your assessment of ad [[master yi]]. I love the character and still occasionally bring him out in 3s to shit on people 17-4-4, but he really gets surpassed in 5s at the moment by alot of other characters. Altho I heard rumors that some mele ADC characters were supposed to get a revamp. Not at all sure how accurate the rumor is, but I would be excited to see him back in upper ELO play. AP [[master yi]] is the single most annoying shit in the entire world. Even ignited, he still heals for a retarded amount, and is a perfect aggro magnet. And AP tristana... well, she sucks, in my personal experience. Ive never seen a good one, not even one that has ever won lane. yeah [[nasus]] sucks now. Ive seen a few scary [[nautilus]] supports that start meta golem and transition to late game tank. But I do agree that [[blitz]] support is better. I see him banned at least 50% of my games now. I don't have much to say about [[poppy]] except that i see bad ones, and i see some that wreck my shit. No real opinion of her. I still have yet to see a good [[sejuani]], but the possibility that they exist is out there, like bigfoot or chupacabra. And no one has a better initiation in the game than [[amumu]]. His only real weakness is being EXTREMELY blue dependant first 10-15 minutes of the game. I think [[talon]] and [[pantheon]] work equally well, depending on what champ you are fighting against. Although talon mid is seen much more than pantheon. Agreed about ap [[teemo]]. Hilarious/artery burstingly infuriating (depending on which side he is relative to you), but doesnt really stack up to AD or OH teemo in a serious match. I want to point out here that you said [[tryndamere]] has quote "trynd has an amazing laning phase" and then a few lines later quote "he has an ok laning phase due to his mobility and sustain, but he doesn't win many matchups, and is countered hard by 120+ armor". It seems i cannot agree or disagree with you, seeing as how you cannot agree with yourself. Agree with ad [[twitch]], has no escapes and gets boned by oracles or pink ward. Agreed about [[rammus]] falling to [[maokai]], but I think I would have to call his [[vengeful maelstrom]] a defense steroid, and one that he can share with his entire team, and not just himself like rammus. Not a terrible list, I agree with a good chunk of it, but some information should probably be updated.[/quote]

[quote=The Tasty Pwnz][quote=Werepirelord] Ever tried support Heimerdinger? [/quote] idk about support heimer, heimer's biggest fault in my experience is that he pushes lane without meaning too, leaving him vulnerable. i wouldnt want my carry to have to compete with turrets. but honestly i havent played enough heim to know what is best. just my thoughts[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]what are your views on hecarim? ive heard people say hes not viable but i do well with him[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]Draven's late game is fine if not very strong. He is merely risky. That risk leads people to believe he is bad because bad people play him incorrectly. :[[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod][quote=The Tasty Pwnz] idk about support heimer, heimer's biggest fault in my experience is that he pushes lane without meaning too, leaving him vulnerable. i wouldnt want my carry to have to compete with turrets. but honestly i havent played enough heim to know what is best. just my thoughts [/quote] A good heimer doesn't push "without meaning to". Heimer has great harass and stuff, his issues are mana and the fact that he really falls off lategame; AoE team comps render his guns useless, single target elimination comps take him out fast as crap unless he can troll Zhonya and remain relevant after it. I like Draven a lot, I think people just focus too much on catchin axes during minute 50, bitches be stupid. He's got a great lane phase and he can actually roam in some comps. I just shat on a Malzahar with Swain. Feels good.[/quote]

[quote=throatslasher][quote=The Overmyynd] Sigh... wow. ok. [[akali]] is fairly situational, ill give you that, but ive got a friend that mains her, and i see him getting into the +10-20 KD ratio very consistently. But i will agree that [[diana]] mid is scary as balls if you play her right against the right champion. [[draven]]- I happen to agree, surprisingly. [[annie]]- Also fairly agree, but a good one can still shit on people not expecting her to be decent. [[fiora]] is scary as fuck. Gets countered by champs like [[riven]] and [[malphite]] but she doesnt even need to be FED, just farmed fairly decently, to be a menace that scales retardedly into late game, and can wipe an entire team straight under their turret. I disagree with your assessment here. [[heimerdinger]] is a pussy MOST of the time, but damn if he knows his shit and is on a team with a good jungler your mid lane is going to have a bad time. Altho most of the time I agree, he gets outclassed pretty hard. Just because [[karma]] support isnt seen that often, doesnt mean she isnt good. And in the last 2 months or so, i havent won a single game when i had a [[lulu]] support. She can literally do every role in the game, but she just isnt that good at any of it. A good [[karma]] support building AP instead of the traditional gp10 leading to a [[randuin's omen]] and [[locket of the iron solari]] et cetera et cetera provides HUGE burst during teamfights, and arguably the most utility of any support, vying for top position with a select few champs like [[zilean]]. [[lux]] and [[morgana]] are like apples and oranges. Idk how you could compare the two. The biggest difference is, i'm scared of lux, and not at all afraid of morgana. Lux has a hyper aggressive harassment lane, and morgana sits back and laughs as she surpasses you in CS while sitting totally safe at her turret. Both are useful in their own way, and both can be scary as hell late game. I too have mixed feelings about [[malzahar]]. That surpress is irritating beyond believe and he can silence an entire team, but players seem to be really hit or miss. Sadly i also agree with your assessment of ad [[master yi]]. I love the character and still occasionally bring him out in 3s to shit on people 17-4-4, but he really gets surpassed in 5s at the moment by alot of other characters. Altho I heard rumors that some mele ADC characters were supposed to get a revamp. Not at all sure how accurate the rumor is, but I would be excited to see him back in upper ELO play. AP [[master yi]] is the single most annoying shit in the entire world. Even ignited, he still heals for a retarded amount, and is a perfect aggro magnet. And AP tristana... well, she sucks, in my personal experience. Ive never seen a good one, not even one that has ever won lane. yeah [[nasus]] sucks now. Ive seen a few scary [[nautilus]] supports that start meta golem and transition to late game tank. But I do agree that [[blitz]] support is better. I see him banned at least 50% of my games now. I don't have much to say about [[poppy]] except that i see bad ones, and i see some that wreck my shit. No real opinion of her. I still have yet to see a good [[sejuani]], but the possibility that they exist is out there, like bigfoot or chupacabra. And no one has a better initiation in the game than [[amumu]]. His only real weakness is being EXTREMELY blue dependant first 10-15 minutes of the game. I think [[talon]] and [[pantheon]] work equally well, depending on what champ you are fighting against. Although talon mid is seen much more than pantheon. Agreed about ap [[teemo]]. Hilarious/artery burstingly infuriating (depending on which side he is relative to you), but doesnt really stack up to AD or OH teemo in a serious match. I want to point out here that you said [[tryndamere]] has quote "trynd has an amazing laning phase" and then a few lines later quote "he has an ok laning phase due to his mobility and sustain, but he doesn't win many matchups, and is countered hard by 120+ armor". It seems i cannot agree or disagree with you, seeing as how you cannot agree with yourself. Agree with ad [[twitch]], has no escapes and gets boned by oracles or pink ward. Agreed about [[rammus]] falling to [[maokai]], but I think I would have to call his [[vengeful maelstrom]] a defense steroid, and one that he can share with his entire team, and not just himself like rammus. Not a terrible list, I agree with a good chunk of it, but some information should probably be updated. [/quote] I'm glad your friend can stomp normal games with akali. good for him. diana does everything she does but better, in an aoe, and has retarded cc. fiora falls apart to ganks. she has piss poor mobility and crappy sustain. her ult is annoying and very good, but it can backfire and it is unreliable. i didn't say karma support was bad because i don't see it, i said it was bad because i've played 40-50 support karma games and I can say from experience she sucks. lux is terrible. her mana costs are through the roof, and her skills are extremely difficult to land (e is kidna easy, snare is impossible to land on a smart person). I've gotten 1st blood in platinum ranked games with morgana at level 4. She's a huge threat level 5+. Once she hits 6, her kill potential is through the roof. Morgana outclasses lux in all factors (snare, shield, passive, w spell, her ult) the only thing she has less of is damage, but who cares. morgana rapes, lux doesn't. ap yi is shit because of his trashy laning phase and 1 source of damage (alpha strike) poppy doesn't counter anyone in lane, and has trouble against at least 7-8 common top laners (irelia, olaf, true damage OP) She's extremely high skill, high reward sejuani isn't bad, she's just not the best right now. they need to buff her passive and give her some kind of steroid, then she'd be great Pantheon outclasses talon, end of story. Talon can't harass without pushing, he's like an AD katarina. Pantheon is a boss, and brings a lot to every phase of the game. tryndamere has a decent laning phase. crappy in TFs. crappy until late game.[/quote]