Reviving the talk about 
Thresh...What do you think about this info from impaKt? (I just found impaKt on YouTube and this video from June 2014).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgUmXran6Y0
This seems like some good info. If I understood he says...
If versus a poke/heal lane (maybe Janna/ Caitlyn) then go with a Relic Shield start and use your Flay passive to last hit minions (and heal your ADC). In this lane you will not be able to effectively auto attack the enemies and if you do then the results are that you will take damage and they will heal back up. Generally always level Death Sentence first in this lane.
If versus a lane where you can harass (maybe Graves/ Leona) then go with an Ancient Coin start and use your Flay passive to poke (can start with Doran's Shield too). In this lane you can choose to level Death Sentence or Flay first.
The AP + Spellthief's Edge start versus Morgana seems a bit cheesy for me. Also, I pretty much never build CDR boots on supports, as support items offer so much CDR already.
Personally, I have been trying the Relic Shield start. I can clearly see where the stats are a better fit to get Thresh tanky. I had very good luck in a few Bronze normal games. In an in-house game on Sunday with better players and and ADC that actually cared about CS I got reckt. I could not balance last hitting, poking and avoiding taking free harass. I fell so far behind in gold that I was useless. That was versus a Jinx/ Braum lane. I have been practicing my last hitting with Thresh, but I have not tried out the above tips from impaKt.
Thresh...What do you think about this info from impaKt? (I just found impaKt on YouTube and this video from June 2014).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgUmXran6Y0
This seems like some good info. If I understood he says...
If versus a poke/heal lane (maybe
Janna/ Caitlyn) then go with a Relic Shield start and use your Flay passive to last hit minions (and heal your ADC). In this lane you will not be able to effectively auto attack the enemies and if you do then the results are that you will take damage and they will heal back up. Generally always level Death Sentence first in this lane.If versus a lane where you can harass (maybe
Graves/ Leona) then go with an Ancient Coin start and use your Flay passive to poke (can start with Doran's Shield too). In this lane you can choose to level Death Sentence or Flay first.The AP +
Spellthief's Edge start versus Morgana seems a bit cheesy for me. Also, I pretty much never build CDR boots on supports, as support items offer so much CDR already.Personally, I have been trying the
Relic Shield start. I can clearly see where the stats are a better fit to get Thresh tanky. I had very good luck in a few Bronze normal games. In an in-house game on Sunday with better players and and ADC that actually cared about CS I got reckt. I could not balance last hitting, poking and avoiding taking free harass. I fell so far behind in gold that I was useless. That was versus a Jinx/ Braum lane. I have been practicing my last hitting with Thresh, but I have not tried out the above tips from impaKt.
Oh my god there are so many things wrong with his explanations. I had to stop two minutes in because I couldn't handle it any more T,T
Relic Shield will allow you to have the most aggressive of lanes. The part where he talks about using the Flay's extra damage to last hit doesn't really indicate that you won't be harassing your opponents with the Flay damage. When you improve your last hitting, you will find it isn't too difficult to last hit minions, even without the bonus damage from the charged flay.
Don't listen to his **** about masteries. 0/30/0 is bad; 0/21/9 isn't unreasonable, but it certainly isn't the main mastery path for thresh.
The only reason people build Ancient Coin is because the active from talisman of ascension is so absolutely amazing. Literally, that is the only reason people even consider starting Ancient Coin on thresh. Ancient coin is considered weaker on thresh, because it gives you no combat stats, and effectively forces you to concede any early game pressure you have against your opponents if they are half as good as you.
For me, my question regarding the Relic Shield vs Ancient Coin start had more to do with my playstyle than anything else. When I have Relic Shield, I kinda get a little bit of a god complex, and opt to follow in a Death Sentence, when in reality I shouldn't have. Opting for Ancient Coin boasts less combat stats, which make me humble myself. Coin start forces me to play safer, and play less recklessly.
Objectively, Relic Shield start is much better than coin start. Like what I described above, there are other factors that need to be factored in, other than just raw stats.
- Spellthief's Edge is trash on thresh :P You're right it's too cheesy
- Ancient Coin gives laughable defensive combat stats, and gold income. It's a weak start - there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
- Relic Shield is desirable on thresh because of the strong combat stats. The heal it gives to your ADC makes it desirable even when against non-poke lanes, as it allows you to commit to trades, and then heal up.
Relic Shield will allow you to have the most aggressive of lanes. The part where he talks about using the Flay's extra damage to last hit doesn't really indicate that you won't be harassing your opponents with the Flay damage. When you improve your last hitting, you will find it isn't too difficult to last hit minions, even without the bonus damage from the charged flay.Don't listen to his **** about masteries. 0/30/0 is bad; 0/21/9 isn't unreasonable, but it certainly isn't the main mastery path for thresh.
The only reason people build
Ancient Coin is because the active from talisman of ascension is so absolutely amazing. Literally, that is the only reason people even consider starting Ancient Coin on thresh. Ancient coin is considered weaker on thresh, because it gives you no combat stats, and effectively forces you to concede any early game pressure you have against your opponents if they are half as good as you.For me, my question regarding the
Relic Shield vs Ancient Coin start had more to do with my playstyle than anything else. When I have Relic Shield, I kinda get a little bit of a god complex, and opt to follow in a Death Sentence, when in reality I shouldn't have. Opting for Ancient Coin boasts less combat stats, which make me humble myself. Coin start forces me to play safer, and play less recklessly.Objectively,
Relic Shield start is much better than coin start. Like what I described above, there are other factors that need to be factored in, other than just raw stats.
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That video is 100% trash. It makes no sense at all. Utopus is correct but allow me to elaborate on this in my own words.
You can still use your E passive and active very aggressively even if you get Relic. The main reasons you want Relic over any of the other options are:
1) Gives you combat stats at the start meaning you can play more aggressively
2) It makes up for your lack of sustain overall because you get some extra heals
3) The final build is really good because it gives CDR and HP, by far the best stats for Thresh.
4) The (early game) gold generation is better than the counterparts.
The main advantage of the coin route is (again, as Utopus said) that you get a really good active and a lot of CDR, but that's at the expense of defensive stats and early game presence. A good plus on coin however is that the passive gold generation is super good going into late game, while using relic shield in late game is very hard (even at super high ratings).
Finally - for as far as I know, a 0-16-14 mastery page is the most optimal way to go, whatever way you decide to go.
You can still use your E passive and active very aggressively even if you get Relic. The main reasons you want Relic over any of the other options are:
1) Gives you combat stats at the start meaning you can play more aggressively
2) It makes up for your lack of sustain overall because you get some extra heals
3) The final build is really good because it gives CDR and HP, by far the best stats for Thresh.
4) The (early game) gold generation is better than the counterparts.
The main advantage of the coin route is (again, as Utopus said) that you get a really good active and a lot of CDR, but that's at the expense of defensive stats and early game presence. A good plus on coin however is that the passive gold generation is super good going into late game, while using relic shield in late game is very hard (even at super high ratings).
Finally - for as far as I know, a 0-16-14 mastery page is the most optimal way to go, whatever way you decide to go.
Jovy
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Blian wrote:
Yeah its pretty good
The_Nameless_Bard wrote:
I like flat AD marks as well (on most tanks, actually). ^^
Quoted:
I tend to take both AD marks and AD quints on Thresh, Leona and Braum. I also generally go 09-21-00 in masteries, and I can confirm it won't ruin your lane/life in plat and (low) diamond.
That's a little bit more questionable but remains mostly a matter of preference.
I've been trying to pick up Zyra as another poke heavy support, and I've had a lot of mixed views on whether to max deadly bloom or Grasping Roots first. From my personal testing, I like Q max quite a bit because of the damage, but some of the guides on here (as well as some of my friends) claim that E max is far superior. What are your thoughts?
Zyra as another poke heavy support, and I've had a lot of mixed views on whether to max deadly bloom or Grasping Roots first. From my personal testing, I like Q max quite a bit because of the damage, but some of the guides on here (as well as some of my friends) claim that E max is far superior. What are your thoughts?
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If you get counterpicked to hell in mid(e.g. misery lane like
Not necessarily, completely depends on how the opponents deal with it. It can make your life easier (pressure through support/jungler roaming) or make the lane a 1v1 because everyone is focused on the swapped lanes meaning you get ****ed.