Vynertje's Support AMA and advice thread

[quote=Vynertje]Well it's a bit difficult to say because it purely depends on how both sides react to you roaming away. Often ADC's get greedy for every single CS which leads to them dying, but which isn't your fault at all if you properly communicate. However, if you roam in a situation where they can either 2v1 dive or freeze it is your fault if your ADC dies or loses all cs. Ezreal and Corki especially can farm waves 1v2 incredibly easy, but when with someone like Jinx/Twitch you may not want to take that risk. In a world where both play perfectly, you roam when the wave pushes back to you (after you pushed it into the tower) so the ADC can just hang back while losing minimal CS waiting for the wave to reach tower. Sadly this world isn't perfect, so all you can do is communicate as much as you possibly can and try to avoid either side making obvious mistakes. If he isn't willing to cooperate, all you can do is suck it up and play babysit while still trying to get some defensive wards down whenever you can (after basing, when he's dead etc.)[/quote]

[quote=Blian]So am I just being a scumbag if I leave my ADC in its own and just roam with my jungler or help top getting the tower? I don't really see the benefit of wasting time on bot where the ADC can't dodge any skillshot or even CS properly. I mean obviously I try to help at the beginning but if I see he is useless I just stop wasting time and rather help my jungler to counter jungle and deny as many farm as we can from their jungler.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Blian]So am I just being a scumbag if I leave my ADC in its own and just roam with my jungler or help top getting the tower? I don't really see the benefit of wasting time on bot where the ADC can't dodge any skillshot or even CS properly. I mean obviously I try to help at the beginning but if I see he is useless I just stop wasting time and rather help my jungler to counter jungle and deny as many farm as we can from their jungler.[/quote] Depends on how and when. If you do it occasionally with the wave in a good spot (when your adc won't lose much cs) and if there's something useful you can do, it's perfectly fine. However if you're just moving away to support another lane permanently you're not just being scumbag, you're also doing dumb stuff. To go over this: 1. This situation assumes your ADC is already (far) behind in items, considering you call him 'useless'. 2. Once you can roam, you give then enemy botlane a number of different opportunities: First, the enemy support can roam too and create a stalemate on other sides of the map, with botlane still winning. Depending on the matchup this may or may not be in their favour. For example, if your mid/top are already winning you may want to avoid pulling more people to their lane, because again this creates some kind of stalemate unless one side makes obvious mistakes. In that case it may be better to try and isolate bot lane from the rest of the game, to avoid the lead from bot lane snowballing to other lanes. Second option is that the enemy support does not follow your roams, which is probably the most common at lower ratings. At that point your ADC is 1v2 or even 1v3 and he will very likely get pushed down. So, at that point you have to trade at least equal to make it worth it, which may be very difficult depending on your pick: Leona and Thresh may be able to force picks, but many other supports will just be useless while they watch the enemy mid/top waveclear under their tower. So, unless either side makes very obvious mistakes, the best thing to do would generally be to stay in lane and try to mirror the enemy support's moves. This is the best way to avoid the enemy's advantage from snowballing to other lanes.[/quote]

[quote=TheSilverDust]So, I want to try out [[Poppy]] in the bot lane. What should I build on her and how to play her as a support?[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=TheSilverDust]So, I want to try out [[Poppy]] in the bot lane. What should I build on her and how to play her as a support?[/quote] idk, never played her I mean, I could give you some random suggestions based on some theorycrafting and what I've seen so far but I doubt that will be very accurate, just look up some pro (games or builds) and you'll get a better idea, sorry.[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu]Eye of the equinox > Swiftness boots > aegis/iceborn > spirit visage defend adc, stun against walls and deal damage easy [s]katka[/s] poppy[/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri][quote=TheSilverDust]So, I want to try out [[Poppy]] in the bot lane. What should I build on her and how to play her as a support?[/quote] I've been enjoying playing her. My quick build is: [[eye of the equinox]] > [[mercury's treads - alacrity]] > [[iceborn gauntlet]] > [[the black cleaver]] The game usually doesn't go beyond that, but if it does, I go tanky items like [[randuin's omen]] and [[banshee's veil]] or [[maw of malmortius]] if I want more damage. A [[locket of the iron solari]] instead of [[the black cleaver]] also makes sense if you'd rather go full tanky. For runes, I go armor seals and magic resist glyphs with armor penetration marks and quints. For masteries, I go for a more damage dealing Thunderlords 12/18/0 build, although a more tank 0/12/18 build would be fine, too. Gameplay: In lane, I go aggressive, knocking opponents into walls -- hopefully in spots where my adc can follow up with damage and get a kill. If opportunities don't arise, I help our sustain by using my support item charges and protect us using wards. If you are ganked, you can knock the ganker back -- preferably into a wall -- and usually walk away without taking too much damage yourself. If you're level 6, you can also ult a ganker away. If it's your team that's doing the ganking, you can help by knocking enemies into walls or at least toward your teammates, slow them with your Q, and stop some of their escapes with your W. In team fights, your job is mostly peeling for your carry -- knocking guys trying to attack your carries away and controlling them. You can also use your ult to knock away their key front line tank, allowing your team to get quickly into the enemy team's squishies. In one game, the enemy team's [[garen]] was fed and basically *was* their team. So, I started dedicating myself to just controlling him. I'd ult him away at the start of a fight and when he came back, I'd repeatedly knock him away, slow him, kite him around, knock him away, etc. My team was able to handle the resulting 4v4 just fine.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]He's talking about support, that's not a support build[/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri][quote=Vynertje]He's talking about support, that's not a support build[/quote] It's tanky cc with healthy damage. Quite supportish if you're setting up kills, knocking people away from your adc, maybe even cleaving their armor.[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]Alternatively you can just build flat HP or close to it on Poppy and never ever die thanks to your shield and W passive[/quote]