Vynertje's Support AMA and advice thread

[quote=Blian]I've seen [[Braum]] quite a lot recently in LCS, LPL and LCK as well. What have made him a very desirable pick? I can't think of any buff he got lately.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Blian]I've seen [[Braum]] quite a lot recently in LCS, LPL and LCK as well. What have made him a very desirable pick? I can't think of any buff he got lately.[/quote] He actually got quite a few (minor) buffs. Mostly it's that his spell shield works very effectively against poke comps (and especially Jayce).[/quote]

[quote=Re4XN]Hey, Vynertje! I bought [[janna]] a couple of weeks ago and I was wondering about her current situation. She has really good disengage and great utility, but I am struggling in-lane: my ADCs want to go ham, but I have very little I can provide, besides a knockup and [[janna]]'s shield/AD. Do you have any tips regarding her early game?[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Re4XN]Hey, Vynertje! I bought [[janna]] a couple of weeks ago and I was wondering about her current situation. She has really good disengage and great utility, but I am struggling in-lane: my ADCs want to go ham, but I have very little I can provide, besides a knockup and [[janna]]'s shield/AD. Do you have any tips regarding her early game?[/quote] She's really good, even offensively. First things first, look closely at Janna's skill set. What are her strengths in lane? In short; it's short trades. You want your ADC to start a trade, time your E correctly so he gets the full damage boost and back off when your ADC's cooldowns are down or the shield drops. That way you both optimize damage dealt and take no damage in return: you can use your Q-W to disengage from the trade if necessary. The most important thing to keep in mind is to back off BEFORE the shield drops so you don't take any damage in return on the exit. So, that's exactly what you want to be doing. Besides that, you can use your long range autoattacks to get some small poke damage down in between trades (I use AD marks on Janna) and assert some lane dominance that way.[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]Thoughts on Zekes? Is it worth rushing? Who should I buy it on?[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]Worth rushing? For sure not; crit is a late game stat. Besides, there are far more important items to rush as a support. My thoughts so far is that the item takes a long time to stack and needs to be proc'd at the exact right time, which can make it inconvenient to use - which pushes its potential back. It could be a very OP item for AP-scaling supports like Lulu if it didn't have those inconveniences. Another drawback is that the build path is kinda mediocre (standalone AP is pretty poor to buy as a support) For any more detailed experiences you'd have to wait a little bit longer as I just returned from my break and only got to play with the item one game.[/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri]I've had good experiences with [[zeke's harbinger]] on [[janna]]. Basically, my initial build is: [[sightstone]][[talisman of ascension]][[ardent censer]][[zeke's harbinger]] When paired with an auto dependent adc like [[vayne]] or [[ashe]] it's amazing. One game I was giving a [[vayne]] 86 AD, 15% ias, 50% crit, and +30 on-hit Magic damage. Needless to say, we rolled through the enemy team. The key with [[zeke's harbinger]] is that the actions of both players generate stacks. So, if I see a fight is about to break out (say the dragon is about to spawn), then I'll check the stacks and pop out a couple tornados and shields just to prime the stacks to the 80+ range. Since the actions of both players count, the stacks get generated quickly. It's not uncommon for it to proc twice in an extended team fight.[/quote]

[quote=TheSilverDust]Speaking of [[Janna]], I bought her and been successful in games. I play her passively until my ADR and I reach level 6... I want to play [[Janna]] aggressively, what are the typical items that I should buy? Does the ability sequence is still [[eye of the storm]] >[[ability zephyr]]>[[howling gale]] (with [[monsoon]] leveled up as possible)? A separate question: Should I take [[Ardent Censer]] if there are ally champions who rely at attack speed (the likes of [[Vayne]] and [[Kalista]])?[/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri][quote=TheSilverDust]A separate question: Should I take [[Ardent Censer]] if there are ally champions who rely at attack speed (the likes of [[Vayne]] and [[Kalista]])?[/quote] Personally, I use it as something I get instead of boots. [[talisman of ascension]] plus [[ardent censer]] plus support masteries and [[janna]] abilities usually give me all the speed I need. Occasionally, I'll buy some cheap [[boots of speed]] early, though, just to make sure I have enough speed before I build all my items and have my [[ability zephyr]] maxed out.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=MungoGeri]The key with [[zeke's harbinger]] is that the actions of both players generate stacks. So, if I see a fight is about to break out (say the dragon is about to spawn), then I'll check the stacks and pop out a couple tornados and shields just to prime the stacks to the 80+ range. Since the actions of both players count, the stacks get generated quickly. It's not uncommon for it to proc twice in an extended team fight.[/quote] It still feels quite mediocre because it's hard to guarantee you'll get the stacks when you need it (e.g. you'll waste it on doing baron). I'll need more experience with the item, but from the one game I played I never managed to proc the item at the perfect right time. Stay tuned for a more detailed experience, but so far I wouldn't buy the item in a serious ranked game. [quote=TheSilverDust]Speaking of [[Janna]], I bought her and been successful in games. I play her passively until my ADR and I reach level 6... I want to play [[Janna]] aggressively, what are the typical items that I should buy? Does the ability sequence is still [[eye of the storm]] >[[ability zephyr]]>[[howling gale]] (with [[monsoon]] leveled up as possible)? A separate question: Should I take [[Ardent Censer]] if there are ally champions who rely at attack speed (the likes of [[Vayne]] and [[Kalista]])?[/quote] You don't need items to play aggressively with Janna, all you need is your ADC to be ahead/even. You don't really need to wait to get 6 either. You can pretty much buy every item to be aggressive, ranging from Soulstealer to Mikaels; each item either empowers your aggressive ability or makes it more forgiving to go very aggressively. You just get whatever you need every game (although core is Talisman for sure). Skill sequence is indeed R>E>W>Q Ardent Censer is mediocre. It's a very early game item (flat stats) and requires you to get it early in the game. Problem is; for any support there will be more important items to get very early on. If you decide to buy it second, you usually won't finish the full item before 25 minutes - at which point it becomes kinda weak. Especially considering the stats of the item (40 ap, 10% cdr and 8% ms) are very weak. With that in regard, it's good when you 1) get it early 2) there are multiple champions in your team that benefit from the item and 3) you have a reliable and spammable way to get that bonus on them (Janna is good in this regard, but you rely on your ultimate a bit). If it's just for your ADC, don't get it. [quote=MungoGeri][quote=TheSilverDust]A separate question: Should I take [[Ardent Censer]] if there are ally champions who rely at attack speed (the likes of [[Vayne]] and [[Kalista]])?[/quote] Personally, I use it as something I get instead of boots. [[talisman of ascension]] plus [[ardent censer]] plus support masteries and [[janna]] abilities usually give me all the speed I need. Occasionally, I'll buy some cheap [[boots of speed]] early, though, just to make sure I have enough speed before I build all my items and have my [[ability zephyr]] maxed out.[/quote] Always get boots on Janna. Extra movement speed is still quite valuable in pretty much every situation (makes warding around the map so much easier and safer, making positioning for good ults in teamfights easier etc). As per above, Ardent Censer is a very situational / mediocre item and shouldn't be in your core build on Janna.[/quote]