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Imma 'bout to end this man's whole career My rather unimpressive and slowly growing anime list! Currently watching:
Nisekoi: False Love |
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The coin is a greedy choice? lel
You say don't underestimate the damage you deal, but to that I say don't overestimate it either. Against some lanes it's an ok pick, but against the likes of lulu, karma or heck, even someone like nami it's basically asking to get poked back 10 times harder. If you use your shield to poke and the enemy doesn't retaliate to break it with a single spell, then they'll most likely harass your adc next and you'll have no way of protecting them.
It's just as viable an option as coin from my experience.
You say don't underestimate the damage you deal, but to that I say don't overestimate it either. Against some lanes it's an ok pick, but against the likes of lulu, karma or heck, even someone like nami it's basically asking to get poked back 10 times harder. If you use your shield to poke and the enemy doesn't retaliate to break it with a single spell, then they'll most likely harass your adc next and you'll have no way of protecting them.
It's just as viable an option as coin from my experience.
Why coin?
1) Spellthief is only good in the first few levels right now, after first base (or levels) your AA-trades aren't as good any more nor will the flat damage on spellthief be of any use. Also, as XeresAce mentioned, in a lot of matchups you cannot use your AA's as much. "Every little bit counts" is a bit of a weird argument to support a clearly inferior build path, just because it adds like 30 damage total in an all-out fight. You can even argue that the health regen on coin compensates for that.
2) As discussed above, Talisman is a must-buy for supports like Janna (usually as first core item). It's gold generation late game is far superior to any blue support path and the active is really, really good. Yeah, you can get spellthief for early game but it requires you to snowball in order for it to be effective: the gold generation on the likes of Janna is relatively poor and you'll have to sell it once mid game starts.
3) I personally rely on my ADC to start a trade and follow up on that, rather than initiating a trade myself. It's much more effective (that way you get the maximum damage output with least damage taken) as long as your ADC knows how to play the lane. You can call me a hesitant player for doing that, I personally regard it as smart and patient.
In short: coin is a very effective, versatile start and unless you are playing against a very easily-abused lane, coin is far superior to spellthief.
1) Spellthief is only good in the first few levels right now, after first base (or levels) your AA-trades aren't as good any more nor will the flat damage on spellthief be of any use. Also, as XeresAce mentioned, in a lot of matchups you cannot use your AA's as much. "Every little bit counts" is a bit of a weird argument to support a clearly inferior build path, just because it adds like 30 damage total in an all-out fight. You can even argue that the health regen on coin compensates for that.
2) As discussed above, Talisman is a must-buy for supports like Janna (usually as first core item). It's gold generation late game is far superior to any blue support path and the active is really, really good. Yeah, you can get spellthief for early game but it requires you to snowball in order for it to be effective: the gold generation on the likes of Janna is relatively poor and you'll have to sell it once mid game starts.
3) I personally rely on my ADC to start a trade and follow up on that, rather than initiating a trade myself. It's much more effective (that way you get the maximum damage output with least damage taken) as long as your ADC knows how to play the lane. You can call me a hesitant player for doing that, I personally regard it as smart and patient.
In short: coin is a very effective, versatile start and unless you are playing against a very easily-abused lane, coin is far superior to spellthief.
I know you all are utility support items nuthuggers (which Isn't bad) while I prefer to go with a high AP build on my Janna (which people think is inferior to the more utility oriented build). Viva la revolucion!
Seriously though, playing a passive Janna is like eating a sandwich without butter. There's no fun in that.
Seriously though, playing a passive Janna is like eating a sandwich without butter. There's no fun in that.
Building coin =/= passive
The only difference is that I follow up on my ADC instead of trying to make trades happen myself. The result is that the aggressiveness of the lane depends on my ADC's confidence, but the playstyle is super effective with an aggressive ADC because you can force short trades and come out on top in every single one of them. If you force them yourself against the likes of Lulu/Sona/Bard you'll just get blasted in the face.
For the record, my build isn't anything like a 'utility nuthog' - it's simply a "I build whatever I need" mindset. That results in builds ranging from Talisman/Mikaels/Locket to Soulstealer/Deathcap. AP just isn't a priority; it's a luxury. The only priority is Talisman as it's so good right now.
The only difference is that I follow up on my ADC instead of trying to make trades happen myself. The result is that the aggressiveness of the lane depends on my ADC's confidence, but the playstyle is super effective with an aggressive ADC because you can force short trades and come out on top in every single one of them. If you force them yourself against the likes of Lulu/Sona/Bard you'll just get blasted in the face.
For the record, my build isn't anything like a 'utility nuthog' - it's simply a "I build whatever I need" mindset. That results in builds ranging from Talisman/Mikaels/Locket to Soulstealer/Deathcap. AP just isn't a priority; it's a luxury. The only priority is Talisman as it's so good right now.
Coin also has more sustain, means you can trade worse and still come out ahead. And Talisman of ascension is the best support item by far, as long as you don't get Turbo Chemtank, but then you will most like play a champion with face of the mountain. I don't really see any use at Frost Queen's Claim, especially since the slow stacking change.
Turbo Chemtank, but then you will most like play a champion with face of the mountain. I don't really see any use at Frost Queen's Claim, especially since the slow stacking change.
Ancient Coin is the "worst" support item for the ADC, but probably the best one for the lane if you aren't playing someone who gets in to the front line and does their stuff there.
sirell wrote:
^ But arguably talisman of ascension isn't, though.
I was only talking about the level one versions of them :p
Relic Shield heals you ~120 after you trade (if you wait for the third stack to heal, otherwise around 80), while Ancient Coin only heals the support :p
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You're saying that as if you can't auto-attack if you buy coin.
Everything else still stands.