Who are the "worst" characters? I...

[quote=Keels]Too short of an attack range and too little damage to be AD Carry. Too little reliable damage to be AP. Teemo is in a really bad place.[/quote]

[quote=Kirluu][quote=DuffTime] AP Shaco has some very serious burst though when DFG, Rabadon's, and Lich Bane are considered on a target with it's back turned. And Shaco is super viable in general. [/quote] You are correct, but I was also correct. A Shaco with those items will most likely be a fed Shaco. And if AP Eve ran around with those items. Hell, she would dominate just as much as AP Shaco would. What I'm saying about both of those is; They are good. But not for serious play. It's far too easy to go negative (score-wise). It's easier to keep clean with Shaco because of his amazing mobility skills, but that really is the only thing that sets the two apart. Of course the nerf on Evelynn didn't make things much better (Stun --> Slow). And yes, Shaco is overall viable, we all know that, and his skills in general, not so much the AP ratios, but the skills in general make him good as AP as well. Then again: Unless you're trolling, it isn't a build for ranked play. Shaco can play ranked, while Eve should stay the heck out of there.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]Shaco's kit > Eve's kit o_o[/quote]

[quote=Kirluu][quote=RosePhoenix] Shaco's kit > Eve's kit o_o [/quote] I do suppose that would sum up all what I've written above :3[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]Heimer and Eve are absolute shit. Shaco (AD) is just now FINALLY getting back to where he used to be before they nerfed him into the ground. AP Shaco still sucks donkey dick and those who say different must always get the "Tropic Thunder" full-on-retard opponents who don't know how to ward and or stay away from bushes. But if you really want to put yourself at a disadvantage then play the amazingly complicated skill based champs like Cass. :P[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] Heimer [/quote] Nope. He's been banned/picked at the final of recent tournaments. [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] Shaco (AD) is just now FINALLY getting back to where he used to be before they nerfed him into the ground. [/quote] No he's not. He's the same (if not worse) as he was back then. To summarise the changes - Boxes get +25 place range (lolwat) Clone gets +20-30% slow added to it Box damage nerfed by 20 (which is a lot) Box activation range reduced Oh, and crit lasts if you destealth (which really wasn't a big deal) Suddenly, after a nerf to his best skill, a +20% slow on an ultimate makes somebody overpowered from underpowered. People just think he's OP as a mental thing. He was better before the nerfs, people just didn't see it yet. Before you mention the new jungle to me, he was better in the old one - though, naturally, still good in this one.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][[Heimerdinger]] [[Twitch]] - only because a majority of people don't know how to play him, he can actually be very good [[Dr. Mundo]] [[Shen]] [[Volibear]] [[Twisted Fate]] [[Kayle]] - maybe I don't know, she seems so bad early/mid game, but so strong late game[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]Was it a NA or EU ban; meaning NA v EU or NA v NA or EU v EU (or whatever other possibilities)? Considering Heimer's overall weak skill set: Grenade speed needs a buff, rockets are "ok", turrets are considerably bad and out ranged easily (used to be better ofc). Heimer's ulti is outdated. His passive is in my eyes something that needs a change/buff. Overall a weak champion, one that is inconsistent and offers little to his team past laning/jungle phases. But NA/EU metas or picks differ. Like Zilean for NA was the Ace in the hole that took EU teams by suprise. Similar to Kog in the lane, unexpected and underutilized, but shown off in tournament play to be very effective. I never said AD Shaco was OP. But the bug fixes, and some additional utility are making him more consistent. His HP pool and burst potential are still lacking and no where near where he used to be in terms of assassin type damage, but they've made strides in bringing him back up. Or that's how I see it. Numbers might say one thing but the people who are good with him, make up for that. Just my opinions really. :P[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] Was it a NA or EU ban; meaning NA v EU or NA v NA or EU v EU (or whatever other possibilities)? Considering Heimer's overall weak skill set: Grenade speed needs a buff, rockets are "ok", turrets are considerably bad and out ranged easily (used to be better ofc). Heimer's ulti is outdated. His passive is in my eyes something that needs a change/buff. Overall a weak champion, one that is inconsistent and offers little to his team past laning/jungle phases. But NA/EU metas or picks differ. Like Zilean for NA was the Ace in the hole that took EU teams by suprise. Similar to Kog in the lane, unexpected and underutilized, but shown off in tournament play to be very effective. [/quote] I'm pretty sure it was Dan Dinh who picked him, forgot the other team. He needs a buff, I'd agree, but he's FAR from unusable (like Xin Zhao) level. His lane control is incredible. [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] I never said AD Shaco was OP. But the bug fixes, and some additional utility are making him more consistent. His HP pool and burst potential are still lacking and no where near where he used to be in terms of assassin type damage, but they've made strides in bringing him back up. Or that's how I see it. Numbers might say one thing but the people who are good with him, make up for that. [/quote] He's not OP, but as I've said - he's practically the same as where he was before. He was overall nerfed from before the "changes", and he got a few usability bug fixes, though honestly no buffs. Saying people are good with him is irrelivant. People being good with a champion doesn't make them any better, it just means people play him well, not to mention the fact that this could be said for any champion, and was true for him before the change. Shaco's the same as he was before the changes. It's all mental.[/quote]

[quote=Roytoy]Try to play Fiddlesticks AD XD good times. But I honestly hate playing with Nidalee. So annoying![/quote]