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Why Thresh is OP

Creator: Xander756 February 5, 2013 1:55pm

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ZeroSoulreaver
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Hahaha I swear people use the term "OP" too loosely and have no clue what they are talking about.

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The points the author makes are "trash"

But i agree with his conclusion. Thresh is OP. He's like a blitzcrank with more damage and better utility.

I'm gonna play him, i'm gonna master him and i'm gonna obtain free-lo until he gets nerfed.
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Xander756
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Luther3000 wrote:

That's a really biased article that ignores several relevent facts. In the comments he says Blitz hook pulling through walls is a glitch.

He also doesn't even mention Thresh's actually OP skill which is his E.


What exactly does that mean "biased." Biased against what? League of Legends?

If the author doesn't like Thresh that doesn't mean he is biased. It is called having an opinion.
Xander756
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Quoted:


Thresh is OP. He's like a blitzcrank with more damage and better utility.



Aren't those pretty much the exact points the author made?
DillButt64
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no thats one of the points he made, he also compared the tankiness between thresh, a tanky support, and graves, an adc,

also you do know that biased=opinionated right? articles shouldnt be biased or opinionated they should display facts and the way hes displaying them is biased and hes only showing the ones in his favor and ignoring others
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lifebaka
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"Biased" meaning that Mr. Hinkley has a bias. Everyone does. Hinkley's is rather blatant. He believes that Thresh is OP and therefore colors everything he says in order to make this appear more true (such as ignoring Taric's 60 bonus armor from W and not mentioning that Blitz's displacement is much larger than Thresh's or how the windup time on Death Sentence makes it difficult to land the active except against stationary targets or how Death Sentence's passive actually works). Basically, he sounds butthurt about the fact that Thresh is pretty good and is going out of his way to cherry pick facts and misrepresent Thresh's power either deliberately or through egregiously not checking his facts; regardless, this is bad.

Polse's comparison to Blitzcrank really isn't what Hinkley was talking about, either. Polse is likely talking about Thresh's entire kit when compared to Blitz's, not just a single ability.

@Dill
Or else he simply isn't aware of those facts that don't support his opinion, in which case he really isn't qualified to make judgments about Thresh's power level and therefore shouldn't be. A bit of Hanlon's razor is always healthy.
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Xander756
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DillButt64 wrote:

no thats one of the points he made, he also compared the tankiness between thresh, a tanky support, and graves, an adc,

also you do know that biased=opinionated right? articles shouldnt be biased or opinionated they should display facts and the way hes displaying them is biased and hes only showing the ones in his favor and ignoring others


Biased does not mean opinionated. Here is the definition of biased: Show prejudice for or against (someone or something) unfairly: "the tests were biased against women"; "a biased view of the world".

Obviously this article is not "biased." The author does not display unfair prejudice against anything. He simply states his opinion and then lists supporting facts to back it up.
Luther3000
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Xander756 wrote:

What exactly does that mean "biased." Biased against what? League of Legends?

If the author doesn't like Thresh that doesn't mean he is biased. It is called having an opinion.


As Lifebaka said, I mean that he's distorting or hiding facts to push his opinion.

For example whilst talking about Thresh's passive he compares him to Taric whilst completely ignoring Taric's own ridiculous 60 armour passive. In actual fact Thresh requires an enormous amount of souls to surpass Taric in armour, more than he could possibly get in any normal game.
tehAsian
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Now that I'm not using my phone, I can actually type out a well thought our response as to why everything the author said is ********.


Quoted:
The result is, as usual, a gimmicky overpowered addition to the game.


First off, Riot doesn't 'usually' add overpowered champions to a game. It almost always goes through testing in PBE first, then that champion gets tweaked, then released. The downside of that is that most of the people on PBE are there for free content, and aren't actually experienced players in the live client at ALL, which led to PBE Zyra being apparently UP, but upon release being broken.


Quoted:
Thresh's passive allows him to collect souls dropped by slain minions. Each soul initially grants him something like +0.97 bonus ability power and armor. By the end of a standard game on Summoner's Rift, it isn't unusual to see Thresh with over 80 bonus armor and ability power (he also deals bonus basic attack damage based on souls collected but more on that later). Compare this to Graves who has a passive that grants him +10 armor and magic resist for each second he is in combat. While Graves' passive only works while he is in combat and then goes away, Thresh gets his huge bonus for the whole game. How's that fair?


Let's break this down first.

"Each soul initially grants him something like +0.97 bonus ability power and armor."
Author clearly has no idea how Damnation works if he didn't even BOTHER to notice that the value goes down per soul collected. The first step to explaining how something is OP is CLEARLY not understanding how it works.

"By the end of a standard game on Summoner's Rift, it isn't unusual to see Thresh with over 80 bonus armor and ability power (he also deals bonus basic attack damage based on souls collected but more on that later)
Bonus BASIC ATTACK DAMAGE. Again, failure to even LEARN the champion's skills.

"Compare this to Graves who has a passive that grants him +10 armor and magic resist for each second he is in combat. While Graves' passive only works while he is in combat and then goes away, Thresh gets his huge bonus for the whole game. How's that fair?"
This is the most laughable part of this paragraph. Why is Thresh being compared to Graves??? They are NOTHING ALIKE! Graves is designed to be an AD Carry, Thresh is designed to be a support! This shows failure to understand even the BASICS of the GAME.

To go even further, champions aren't balanced around one skill, something many people fail to understand. On a similar note, that same misunderstanding is why there are so many "Darius is OP QQ NERF NAO ROIT" threads. Champions are balanced first by role then by entire skill set.

Why does Graves have a lower passive Armor and MR gain from Thresh, and he has to even be in combat for it to work? Look at what Graves has that Thresh does not.
  • Quickdraw - A reposition that increases attack speed
  • smokescreen - Self peel that reduces vision
  • 525 range - 50 higher than Thresh
  • Higher base AD
  • High burst from Q and R

Now imagine if Graves could become infinitely tanky, while being an AD Carry, while having all the utility from smokescreen and Quickdraw. Seems rather OP doesn't it? Graves HAS to be in combat for his 30 Armor and MR because he's a ranged AD Carry, who usually builds glass cannon (except for Warmogs/GA/Mercurial), and therefore cannot have massive defensive steroids because that would create a massive imbalance in the game.

"How is this fair?"
It's fair because Graves is a ranged AD Carry, and is meant to be squishy but deal a lot of sustained damage, but Thresh is designed as a support tank. As a support tank instead of an AD Carry, he doesn't build a lot of damage, but instead gets more survivability as opposed to AD Carries in order to use skills for utility. If an AD Carry could be impossibly tanky while still dealing the same amount of damage, that would be broken, and if Thresh was squishy, he could not be able to do his job well and would be UP in return.


Quoted:
To make up for this bonus, Thresh doesn't gain armor normally per level up. But let's compare Thresh with another "support" champion, Blitzcrank. Blitz gains +3.5 armor per level with a starting base armor of 14.5. That means at level 18, Blitz will have a total of 74 armor. As previously mentioned, Thresh can regularly achieve +80 armor from his passive alone. He starts with 18 armor, so by the end of the game, he's looking at a base armor of around 100 - far higher than Blitzcrank.


At the end of the game huh? How many souls do you get at 20 minutes in? 30 minutes in? There are few games where you'd actually make it to late late game where Thresh would receive that amount of souls, to be brutally honest. Against competent bot laners, they would try their best to deny you of souls, further diminishing your strength. And again, champions aren't balanced around their passive, nor are they balanced around one skill. Using the same argument as the author, I could say Blitzcrank is OP and better than Thresh because Thresh's passive doesn't give him a free 1000 health shield late game, which goes up as you get more resistances and mana.

Quoted:
Let's compare Thresh to some other support champions. Taric has 16.5 base armor and gains +3.2 per level. At level 18, Taric has 70 armor. Nami has 9 base armor and gains +4 per level. At level 18, Nami has 77 armor. Soraka has 7.4 base armor and gains +3.8 per level. At level 18, Soraka has 72 armor. Notice how all of these champions end the game with very similar base armor stats? Why is it considered balanced that Thresh's would be so much higher than every other champion? Plus let's not forget his passive doesn't just give Thresh armor, either. He also gets bonus AP and base attack damage.


You forgot Taric has 60 free armor from his W, heals, and auras, Nami has heals and a gamechanging ultimate, and Soraka has a 100+ armor buff on a target of HER CHOICE plus infinite lane sustain. Champions aren't balanced around base stats either, they are balanced by their kit as a whole.

Oh, Thresh's passive doesn't ****ING GIVE HIM AD.


Quoted:
There is no getting around the fact that Death Sentence is an OP ability. Let's first compare the active ability to Blitzcrank's Rocket Grab because they are very similar pulls. Blitzcrank's Rocket Grab has a range of 925. Thresh's Death Sentence has a range of 1,075.


They aren't similar. Death Sentence is more similar to Dredge Line than Rocket Grab. Death Sentence pulls you like, 200 units towards Thresh. Rocket Grab pulls you the entire distance. They aren't ANYTHING alike aside from the fact that they both pull you X units. Oh, tell me how Rocket Grab pulls Blitzcrank to enemies after the hook duration is over.

Quoted:
Rocket Grab stuns for 1 second. Death Sentence suppresses for 1.5 seconds.


It's not even a suppress. Again, failure to understand the champion as a whole, and he just starts QQing about it.

Quoted:
Death Sentence also costs less mana to cast and has a smaller cool down.


That's because it's less rewarding than Rocket Grab to land. Rocket Grab can pull someone over a wall and instantly turn games into a 4v5. Death Sentence cannot.

Rocket Grab chains into a knockup, a silence, and huge early burst. Death Sentence usually pulls you into more minor CC, and drastically lower burst.

Rocket Grab also doesn't have a stupid 1 second windup time, making it a LOT easier to land.

There are enough reasons here to justify the cooldown and mana COST (not cast...lol)

Quoted:
In addition to all these perks, Death Sentence also has a passive bonus that Rocket Grab does not. Each of Thresh's basic attacks does bonus magic damage equal to the number of souls he has collected plus a percent of his AD (up to 80% / 110% / 140% / 170% / 200% AD).

Compare this to Master Yi's Wuju Style which grants him +15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 attack damage per hit. By the end of the game Thresh is looking at +266 attack damage per hit (Thresh receives +200% of his AD as bonus damage per hit and has 83 base AD by level 18. 200% of 83 is 166. He also gets bonus damage equal to the number of souls harvested. Assuming he has 100 souls, that's another +100, thus +266). Keep in mind this is without any AD items.


Oh god my sides. I'm dying from laughter.

The full 200% AD only applies if you wait an entire 10 seconds before attacking. Whereas Yi's Wuju Style is up every fight, at 100% efficiency.

Oh yeah, look at Thresh's base AD. You realise 83 is one of the lowest amounts in the game, right? You also realise as a support he doesn't build any AD right? And you also realise Yi builds attack speed and Crit to multiply his 70 AD right? A single Infinity Edge will bring that 70 AD into 175 damage, and a Phantom Dancer will multiply that amount to an even higher number because of attack speed and crit.

Quoted:
So Master Yi gets +35 attack damage per hit (or +70 when activated) and Thresh gets +266. Not only is this ridiculously better than Yi's ability, it is simply the second part of an ability that is already strictly better than Blitzcrank's grab! How is this balanced?


It's balanced because Yi has massive steroids which let him absolutely decimate a squishy, and his steroids are up every attack whereas Thresh's 'steroid' is at its maximum every 10 seconds.

Quoted:
Why is Death Sentence so much better than Rocket Grab and Master Yi's Wuju Style COMBINED? Some might point out that Thresh's ability has a wind up so it can be predicted and avoided. What about when Thresh is in the bushes and you can't see him winding up?

sight ward

Quoted:
If you thought that Darius was overpowered, just wait until you lane against Thresh. His very presence makes the game progress at an extremely slow pace and not much fun to play


Darius isn't overpowered. LOL.
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lifebaka
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It's also worth noting that, even assuming that Thresh is OP as Xander756 states, it isn't even logical to conclude that Thresh makes games slow. OP champions tend to make games shorter, not longer, because they stomp all over your face and make you dead.

Oh, and Thresh's most OP ability is Dark Passage, anyway, which Xander didn't touch on. I mean, an AoE shield? That's stupidly powerful, not even considering the rest of Thresh's kit or the ability's other uses. Its only saving grace is that it has fairly small base values and a terrible AP ratio, like the rest of Thresh's kit, so it's hard to abuse too badly late game. (Except perhaps by building more AoE shields. Locket of the Iron Solari for 410+ HP on your entire team, anyone?)
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