Click to open network menu
Join or Log In
Mobafire logo

Join the leading League of Legends community. Create and share Champion Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account






Or

's Forum Avatar

[Suggestion]Change in the current Votingsystem

Creator: Yukimaru July 3, 2011 3:32am
Yukimaru
<Member>
Yukimaru's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
1370
Joined:
Jan 14th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep July 3, 2011 3:32am | Report
Quoted:

1.1. Changes in blue

Sorry for my bad english, i hope you guys can still understand it.

So as far as we all know the current Votingsystem is just ********, trollvotes,hatervotes or votes with just newly created accounts and much more, so heres my Idea, maybe this text will be long or not i dont know cuz i have everything in my head^^

Dont forget all numbers are changeable and shouldnt be taken as the mainreason why you dont like this idea


So here are my Ideas to improve the current Votingsystem:

1.
Most importantly, to make a vote, you need to comment, no matter if there are alrdy 20 votes, 50 votes, 100 votes, 200 votes, you need to comment when u want to vote + or -
Thats the cornerstone of mostly everything, voting to comment is nothing what you should wonder about and i dont understand why that thing gets taken out after X votes anyways...

Its possible to make his own votes anonym, so your Name is replaced with something like "anonym" or something like this.

2.
The commentsection is divided into 2 sections, one is for all the votes, the other one just for comments without votes, for discussion.
For a better Overview for the Users aswell the Guidecreator


3.
In the Votecommentsection the Author of the Thread can reply to votes, they are directly under the vote then instead of getting added to the newest page of the comments section, somehow like Newgrounds, y know.
Again for a better Overview, some people, like me care about what the Author thinks bout my comments and the Author should have the rights to try to change the mind of the voter, or not?


4.
Other users can downvote other votes, to counter trollvotes, if a vote gets -20 downvotes, the vote gets "marked".
If a Vote is "marked", Mobafire vets have a new tab, where they see all the "marked" votes, they can go trough them and choose if that vote should count or not.(If people downvote reasonable votes because of the hate). After they maked a decision, the User who voted cant vote again in this Guide, and if the vote gets "counted" it cant be downvoted again.
Thats pretty much the most important change that would most likely kill all the nonsense-votes out here, of course its community depended and people can trolldownvote votes, but with that "marked" thing it should pretty much kill the downvotes aswell, Mobafire vets are vets for just nothing, am i right?



Ok now 2 things about "time-managment" for new guides, users etc.:



5.
If a new Champion comes out, just dont make a section for him until 7 days after he came out.
Because nobody can make a good guide in 1 or 2 days after the champ came out. I alrdy saw that you cant vote on new champs, but i think thats still not enough.

Taked out cuz Moba gets more user from this

6.
A new created acc cant vote on a guide before 15 days after registration passed.
Thats probally sounds a little bit harsh and unfair against new Users, the time that must pass can ofc be lower. Even tough its harsh i think its necessary, that would pretty much kill all the "1post"accs, will it be multis or just friends of the guidecreator who vote the guide out of friendship without even reading it.




Thats pretty much everything, the one and most important change (able to vote votes) makes that thing a whole lot community depended, even tough im not so community active i think with a great community like that, where mods/admins care about their community*looks towards Jet* it is managable, and most of the vets are great too(most of em, even some Vets take Friendship over their neutralstatus so it should still be fine).

So what you guys think about this? Critism? Suggestions? Opinions?
Searz
<Ancient Member>
Searz's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
13418
Joined:
Jun 6th, 2010
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep July 3, 2011 4:18am | Report
I don't like it.

The only thing that I think should be implemented is that new accounts shouldn't be able to vote in a short period of time. Maybe a week or so.
"I saw [Twilight: Eclipse] in theaters with a girl I was dating at the time. I spent more time staring at my toes and wiggling them than I did watching this abomination. When Edward proposed to Blank Face, I finally looked up with a revelation.
I blurted out loud, in a dead silent theater full of teenage girls on opening night "Wait a minute, Edward has no blood flow. How does he get an erection?" I heard several men laughing, and had several girls turn and stare at me.

I did not get laid that night." - Berengier817
wRAthoFVuLK
<Altruistic Artist>
wRAthoFVuLK's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
10852
Joined:
Jan 17th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep July 3, 2011 5:25am | Report
HOLAY **** NOT ANOTHER ONE OF THESE VOTING THREADS.

****k.

dude, just look through all the other 100000 threads about this and see our responses about this >.>


those are all bad ideas.

1. We had that and it didn't work well. Guide scores were inflated because some people were afraid to downvote. They weren't exactly the truest of scores. Now, the scores are much more precise.

Also, don't you think it is more frustrating to GET a downvote with the "required" comment being HLKSFHJSLKFHSFIGUJHALFUIJSKNDSajfhSLKJDARHDJKLGFH KNOWING it is a troll then just getting a downvote and not knowing if it is legit or troll?

I'd rather just not know.

C2V stopped TRUE voters from voting on guides because they were scared for revenge votes, and didn't stop TROLLS AT ALL.

Now, people WHO WANT TO VOTE BUT WERE SCARED TO CAN, and trolls will always be trolls.

But don't think you are special, since EVERYONE gets troll votes, so it EVENS out all of the votes.

Why else would there be 10000000+ QQ threads about this?

You aren't the only one.

And if people WANT to leave a comment to give advice they WILL. Not having it REQUIRED doesn't STOP people from commenting.

The reason it is at 20 votes max now is because we wanted to TAKE IT OUT completely but then people like you would have a major tantrum QQing about no C2V. Also, the 20 votes allows people who JUST released guides to see the actual votes to get the ready per se for no C2V (if they choose to enable it).

2. No that wouldn't help anything at all, just make the system more confusing.

3. Something called "quoting" or saying @(insert name here).

4. Omg no.

Do you realize how complicated this would be?

Do you also realize all the trolls that would - perfectly good votes?

And then you have this idea that to counter THAT, VETS would have to go THROUGH EVERY SINGLE "marked" vote?

DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY "MARKED" VOTES WOULD COME PER DAY?

DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THE VETS WANT TO SPEND THEIR FREE TIME READING OVER COMMENTS?

Vets and mods aren't PAYED to help on this site, they are not EMPLOYEES, they are simple members who actively participate and want to give a hand to the progress of this site.

Not only that, but VOTES ARE VOTES.

There is something called FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

DELETING someone's vote just because it SEEMS to be a troll vote is, in context, ILLEGAL, and SILENCES THAT PERSON'S USAGE OF HIS RIGHTS.

If someone -1s for the reason "I like pie", then OBVIOUSLY, as far as you know, they don't like the guide because of their deep passion for pie.

They could also honestly not like the guide but just be too lazy (like Searz) to say why.

5. NO. This has been discussed TOO. A large amount of our MEMBER base is from people who JOIN to make new guides for the new champs because we are the FIRST to get them on our database.

If people want to, however much they DON'T know about the champ, they can.

You cannot vote on the new champ guides for 5 (?) days after they have been added to the database, however, to:

1. encourage authors to wait a little on making their guide.

2. if they want to, other new guide makers will not be able to constantly downvote EVERY other guide of the same champ as has been done a lot before this was enacted.

And yes, usually the guides for champs that come out right when they are released are not the TOP guides for that champ. There is a reason for that.

But PREVENTING THEM from writing a guide, HOWEVER ****TY IT IS, is once again silencing their right to free speech.

6. What would people do?

Make new accounts, not use them, and just let them age until they are ready to troll vote with them.

It wouldn't prevent trolls, it would just delay them.

Also, that would aggravate many honest people (trolls are the minority if you can believe it) who actually come here to give their opinion! They join because they love a guide and want to vote and comment on it (happens a TON to me and many other people). They EVEN SAY they made an account JUST to +1 you because you helped them so much. This would STOP honest people from voting, which is a good percentage of many votes overall.

And, as a guide author, it is always nice to see a person who JUST joined because of you <3



Do you see how I countered EVERY single one of your points with logic and laws?

Don't even try to make a rebuttal, as your points are moot and discussed already tenfold.

And yes, I may seem a little angry while writing this because people make these threads almost every day, we constantly explain the SAME thing OVER AND OVER again, and you guys don't actually think about what would happen if your idea gets enacted.

End of story.

Thanks to TRUeLM, Plastictree, Scrax, Xiaowiriamu, foggy12, JahGFX, jhoijhoi, msrobinson, JEFFY40HANDS, Nyoike, MissMaw, and me :) for the sigs!
Canoas
<Member>
Canoas's Forum Avatar
Posts:
3064
Joined:
Nov 9th, 2010
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep July 3, 2011 11:49am | Report
The only thing I like is no. 3.

Most of the ideas make no sense. If a build has 20+ upvoters then they can easily downvote the downvoter and erase his vote completely, giving the guide a perfect score.
Commenting to vote means lots of people will refrain from voting. I know I will because I don't want to risk my guides getting revenge downvotes.
Yukimaru
<Member>
Yukimaru's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
1370
Joined:
Jan 14th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep July 3, 2011 12:36pm | Report
Thank you for that critism wRAthoFVuLK, but if that threads who comer over and over again, how about a sticky?, but if there are so many of such threads out there, well what does it mean...
And about your "rage" towards me, i dont maked a single guide out here.
Also i dont think all of your points are logical and some of them are striking out very far and are, for the majority of people, totally paranoid.


1. We had that and it didn't work well. Guide scores were inflated because some people were afraid to downvote. They weren't exactly the truest of scores. Now, the scores are much more precise.

Also, don't you think it is more frustrating to GET a downvote with the "required" comment being HLKSFHJSLKFHSFIGUJHALFUIJSKNDSajfhSLKJDARHDJKLGFH KNOWING it is a troll then just getting a downvote and not knowing if it is legit or troll?

I'd rather just not know.

C2V stopped TRUE voters from voting on guides because they were scared for revenge votes, and didn't stop TROLLS AT ALL.

Now, people WHO WANT TO VOTE BUT WERE SCARED TO CAN, and trolls will always be trolls.

But don't think you are special, since EVERYONE gets troll votes, so it EVENS out all of the votes.

Why else would there be 10000000+ QQ threads about this?

You aren't the only one.

And if people WANT to leave a comment to give advice they WILL. Not having it REQUIRED doesn't STOP people from commenting.

The reason it is at 20 votes max now is because we wanted to TAKE IT OUT completely but then people like you would have a major tantrum QQing about no C2V. Also, the 20 votes allows people who JUST released guides to see the actual votes to get the ready per se for no C2V (if they choose to enable it).

Theres a very easy solution to that...its possible to make anonym votes.
Not like you just vote and write nothing, more like you vote, you get request to write a comment, you write the comment and then you can click a checkbox with "Make it anonym" or so, done, your Name will be changed to "Anonym" or something like this.

2. No that wouldn't help anything at all, just make the system more confusing.

I dont rly see why it should make it more confusing


3. Something called "quoting" or saying @(insert name here).

I can only talk for myself for this, but i dont like searching for 3 pages to look if the Author has finally commented on something someone/me wrote.

4. Omg no.

Do you realize how complicated this would be?

Do you also realize all the trolls that would - perfectly good votes?

And then you have this idea that to counter THAT, VETS would have to go THROUGH EVERY SINGLE "marked" vote?

DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY "MARKED" VOTES WOULD COME PER DAY?

DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THE VETS WANT TO SPEND THEIR FREE TIME READING OVER COMMENTS?

Vets and mods aren't PAYED to help on this site, they are not EMPLOYEES, they are simple members who actively participate and want to give a hand to the progress of this site.

Not only that, but VOTES ARE VOTES.

There is something called FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

DELETING someone's vote just because it SEEMS to be a troll vote is, in context, ILLEGAL, and SILENCES THAT PERSON'S USAGE OF HIS RIGHTS.

If someone -1s for the reason "I like pie", then OBVIOUSLY, as far as you know, they don't like the guide because of their deep passion for pie.

They could also honestly not like the guide but just be too lazy (like Searz) to say why.

I dont think this is so complicated, YOU think it is. Isnt it just more likely being afraid of new things because the current system works, not so good, but it works? But honestly if you alrdy think something like THAT is complicated, i cant help you.

Yes Vets&Mods are not getting paid, neither you or i know how much of that "marked" votes per day will come, but you just need to look how much votes a new good created guide who lands on the frontpage or gets recommended by a vet gets over the pas 7 days, personally i think not more then 20-40 marked votes per day, and for one "marked" vote you maybe need...15 seconds?
If a vote gets downvoted because he says "Haunting Guise is ******** -1" on a Annieguide, well Haunting Guise is obviously an Item maked for Casters, even tough its not the 0815 Annieitembuild its still a viable item, but that Person dislikes it, so he downvotes it, so its okay.
If a vote gets downvoted while its "omg epic build works so good +1" on an AD Brand, Brand is obviously a Caster and building him AD wont bring you far against any decent Team, obviously a +1 vote on something like this is trolling too.

Freedom of Speech has his limits too, what you say seems for me like cheap QQ, if you like pie, make a thread in the designated section for it(off-topic?), i cant go trough every thread and write "TOMORROW SCHOOL BEGINS AGAIN Q-Q"...well i can, but it will have consequenes, so does writing "I like cookies -1" on a Guide. (and it has nothing to do with the content btw.)



5. NO. This has been discussed TOO. A large amount of our MEMBER base is from people who JOIN to make new guides for the new champs because we are the FIRST to get them on our database.


If people want to, however much they DON'T know about the champ, they can.

You cannot vote on the new champ guides for 5 (?) days after they have been added to the database, however, to:

1. encourage authors to wait a little on making their guide.

2. if they want to, other new guide makers will not be able to constantly downvote EVERY other guide of the same champ as has been done a lot before this was enacted.

And yes, usually the guides for champs that come out right when they are released are not the TOP guides for that champ. There is a reason for that.

But PREVENTING THEM from writing a guide, HOWEVER ****TY IT IS, is once again silencing their right to free speech.

Okay guess u are right if thats the reason why Moba has so many member it should stay like that.


6. What would people do?

Make new accounts, not use them, and just let them age until they are ready to troll vote with them.

It wouldn't prevent trolls, it would just delay them.

Also, that would aggravate many honest people (trolls are the minority if you can believe it) who actually come here to give their opinion! They join because they love a guide and want to vote and comment on it (happens a TON to me and many other people). They EVEN SAY they made an account JUST to +1 you because you helped them so much. This would STOP honest people from voting, which is a good percentage of many votes overall.

And, as a guide author, it is always nice to see a person who JUST joined because of you <3

The amount of Days is probally to much, and that point isnt necessary either, the most important points for me are 1 and 4, the rest are just "add-ons". Yes it stops the people who just maked a acc to vote for you. But it WILL stop trolls also, not all, but some of them. And making changes to decrease the number of trolls is always good. What i want to say is that Idea has his cons but his pros also and i cant judge if if the cons outweight the pros or vice versa.



So thank you for brining me to the Idea that votes can be maked anonym^^
And if you come with "If its anonym they will randomly downvote guides from people where they think they got downvoted from this person." thats so far-fetched and paranoid, just no comment x-x
But all in all, as i alrdy said the 1. and 4. are the important changes, the rest are just "add-ons" to make it more comfortable, easier or clearer/whatever u want.
Jebus McAzn
<Retired Moderator>
Jebus McAzn's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
7017
Joined:
Sep 30th, 2010
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep July 3, 2011 12:39pm | Report
The only one of these suggestions that I would support is number 3.

1 has been discussed. We tried having comment to vote on all the time for a few months, but the only result was guides reaching much higher percentages than they should have gotten to. The current system is good, I feel.

2 would only be viable if 1 was implemented.

4 has also been discussed and would contribute only more to score inflation.


5 and 6 I'll remain undecided on but I currently like the way we have the system currently. A lot of users make accounts the day new champion guides come out to vote up a guide that helped them - if we put that barrier up, it would discourage these votes and also the users from coming back.
JunSupport
<Veteran>
JunSupport's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
3344
Joined:
Oct 5th, 2010
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep July 3, 2011 7:28pm | Report
Your suggestions would bring The Troll Wars to MobaFire...
Far too complicated, too easily open to abuse.

And I see no reaosn to block people from voting for having a new account. That would discourage people to stay on the site, and according to the site, over 10,000 people browse daily without having an account...
~ Gentlemen Cho'Gath ~
┌──┐
┴──┴
< ಠ,....,ರೃ>
~ Keeping this sig classy ~

Guides of Mine - Click the... Eh... Come back later

~Undergoing barbaric-Destruction, tasteful-Renovation, and blasphemous-Reconstruction soonâ„¢~
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ┬──┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
wRAthoFVuLK
<Altruistic Artist>
wRAthoFVuLK's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
10852
Joined:
Jan 17th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep July 4, 2011 6:50am | Report
I am not being paranoid my friend, I am just stating the true facts that people do, I have seen it, this has been discussed, and as I have said tons of people make threads over 1 vote...THEY are paranoid...

Just like Jebus and Jun said.

Also, your idea with comment required but it can be anonymous is now NO different from what we have now.

You vote, it is anonymous.

If you want to comment, you comment!

Making comment required but making the votes anonymous would only increase troll spam comments, and they won't need to worry about getting revenged. This would encourage trolls, now they can troll, leave a troll comment, and you won't even know who it is! Right now, all they have to do is downvote and you won't get any spam comment. Your idea would make this worse.

And the people who actually want to leave a comment will.

Your idea #3 might not be bad actually, I can see your point there.

As for the marked votes, you are TOTALLY CLUELESS if you think only 20-40 votes will get marked per day...

I would say, considering the amount of trolling, complaining, and member base this site has, easily 100-200 a day if not more.

The vets would not be given responsibility for this, only mods and admins would be allowed to dispute votes.

Right now, there are 5 mods and admins together.

The admins work on site matters, updates, making this site what it is today...

so that leaves 3 people. Jebus, DEWO, Scrax. They already have to:

1. Lock threads.

2. Manage the tons of reports that come in daily on behavior as well as paranoid people complaining about troll votes.

Do you honestly think they want to spend more time on this site dealing with this too? Especially since most of them will not even be legit marked votes?

They are human and have lives too >.>

And Scrax even told me, since C2V for all votes has been taken away, the reports that have come in have gone down drastically. They used to have an unmanageable amount of reports to deal with from paranoid people, that they couldn't even do anything about, and your idea would just start this up again x2.

take a look at this:

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/mobafire-support/i-have-found-troll-votes-on-the-site-can-i-get-them-deleted-1976

and no, you are limiting freedom of speech...it is called FREEDOM of speech for a reason.

as long as you are not saying anything that can be considered offensive towards someone nor using IP cheating it is legit. "I like pie" is not offensive, yes it is not appropriate for the situation but it is not offensive.

And no, more people make accounts to ask questions and vote guides they love every day than to troll, implementing your new account voting thing would lower the userbase of this site drastically and piss off a lot of legit people who want to join the site to vote on guides they like just because of a few trolls that people QQ about.

It happens to everyone, it makes votes balanced, deal with it, it is not the end of the world.

Thanks to TRUeLM, Plastictree, Scrax, Xiaowiriamu, foggy12, JahGFX, jhoijhoi, msrobinson, JEFFY40HANDS, Nyoike, MissMaw, and me :) for the sigs!

You need to log in before commenting.

League of Legends Champions:

Teamfight Tactics Guide