Childbirth License

[quote=FatelBlade]What do y'all think about requiring couples to apply for a license to have a baby? Currently, it is much harder to adopt a child than it is to have one, and perhaps better lives could be guaranteed if couples were required to be approved to have a child.[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu]too hard to enforce tbh... if they get prego, you can't force abortion or just ignore them[/quote]

[quote=Latest Legend]Why can't you force abortion? EDIT: What I'm trying to say it, ethics change, and I think you're close to "Q: Why can't the door be round? A: Well, the hole in the wall is rectangular."[/quote]

[quote=Meiyjhe][s]yeah when you aren't qualified the police will just kick in the pregnant stomache really hard.[/s] I think the best thing we can do about it is to allow abortion to be an acceptable decision. People that do not want kids should not be forced to have kids. People should also not be appealed to having kids because it is the "right thing to do", rather because they want to be parents. As long as people want to be parents, I feel they will do a decent enough job at it simply because they care.[/quote]

[quote=Lasoor][quote]Why can't you force abortion?[/quote] There's a large group of the population strongly against abortion even being legal in the first place and you're suggesting we jump ahead to it being forced... Your idea is honestly something you'd see in a dystopian movie. Giving the government the right to murder your would be kids simply because you don't have a license. The government has literally no right to dictate who can and can't have a child through natural reproduction. The only reason adoption is difficult is because the goal for those kids is to find them a good home as a result of them not already having one. The parents of those kids either gave to the government or abused them and lost them as a result. Regardless the government is in charge of their futures. When you have a child the government has no right to be involved, that is your kid not their's. Government controls too many things enough as it is.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]Birth control for women and men should be free and abortions should be legal. That'd fix the issue of unplanned/unwanted kids.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=jhoijhoi]Birth control for women and men should be free and abortions should be legal. That'd fix the issue of unplanned/unwanted kids.[/quote] It goes a long way, but it's not all. There are numerous cases in The Netherlands of people repeatedly refusing to use contraception even though they cannot take care of the children. They cannot oversee the consequences of not using birth control and cannot plan ahead financially. It has reached the point where local municipalities have requested for tests with/research into forced sterilisations for parents who continue to have kids even though they cannot care for them.[/quote]

[quote=Latest Legend]^ I still think it's ridiculous that people with serious mental disabilities, who require a lot of care and will never be able to take care of children, cannot be discouraged from having children. [quote=Lasoor]There's a large group of the population strongly against abortion even being legal in the first place and you're suggesting we jump ahead to it being forced... Your idea is honestly something you'd see in a dystopian movie. Giving the government the right to murder your would be kids simply because you don't have a license. The government has literally no right to dictate who can and can't have a child through natural reproduction. The only reason adoption is difficult is because the goal for those kids is to find them a good home as a result of them not already having one. The parents of those kids either gave to the government or abused them and lost them as a result. Regardless the government is in charge of their futures. When you have a child the government has no right to be involved, that is your kid not their's. Government controls too many things enough as it is.[/quote]Haha, I guess it depends on where you're standing. Abortion being legal is a natural thing where I live (it's been legal since 1984 in the Netherlands). I don't consider abortion murder, so I don't consider "forced abortion" murder either. The government isn't some magical entity, in our democratic world it's formed by us. If we find ourselves faced with an abundance of children without parents, or simply mass overpopulation, challenging the food production of our planet, then I think it would definitely be a viable thing to start controlling whether or not people can give birth. (whether that is by "getting a license" or simply not providing any services for a second child like with China back in the day doesn't really concern me) But I agree it has some scary aspects to it. To the next generation it might not though. People get used to things really fast.[/quote]

[quote=Ekki][quote=Latest Legend]Abortion being legal is a natural thing where I live (it's been legal since 1984 in the Netherlands). I don't consider abortion murder, so I don't consider "forced abortion" murder either.[/quote]This is some nice insight and ties in very well with your last sentence. [quote=Latest Legend]But I agree it has some scary aspects to it. To the next generation it might not though. People get used to things really fast.[/quote] One last note on this though. "Forced abortion" not being murder doesn't mean it's OK. It's still a forced decision on somebody else's body. I mean, it's in the table as an option, but there's a bit more nuance to it than a discussion on whether or not abortion is OK.[/quote]

[quote=Lasoor]Well I live in America where the government doesn't just serve the majority. It protects the minority from the majority through a 3 branch democratic-republic federalist system. Giving the government the power to force abortions is giving them the power to kill a living thing at their discretion. Forced sterilization is far more acceptable than forced abortion. And yes, whether you like it or not abortion is scientifically murder. You are literally killing another living thing. It is alive when they kill it. I personally am pro-choice on abortion, but I am still willing to admit what it really is and I would never abdicate for something that takes away a person's choice to the point where it kills their would-be kid. Worth noting that I'm Libertarian so I'm pro-choice on just about anything that doesn't harm another individual. I'm only fine with Abortion at early periods as the child is not yet aware in any way and it should be used to further scientific stem cell research which can help other people greatly. I'm actually glad Americans debate the issue of abortion so much though, it shows that we as a country truly care about what is right and wrong. That we'd never go as far as to give our government the right to murder children because of their parents.[/quote]