I'm about done beating the dead horse now. You are assuming a 100% crit chance with that scenario. PERIOD.
I keep in mind a moving target in my calcs. I put thought in my calcs. Otherwise we would be talking about how AS is better than Crit% and ArPen. Never do two players just stand there beating the ever living F### out of each other unless it's 2 Yi's trying to dominate with lifesteal/AS, or two really not bright tanks.
The point of speccing ArPen is so that you can buy dmg items. If you get to assume your fkn 100% crit BullS### I get to assume that I have the items that I wanted as well, which usually ends up being a lot of AD with some AS. Case in point, Pantheon having 3 Bloodthirsters and boots. My piddly 30 ArPen deals a massive 350dmg per normal strike on targets with less than/equal to 30 armor. But wait! There's more! I've only declared 4 items. I also have Ghostblade and Last Whisper. All targets below 100 armor now take true damage. Minimum of almost 400. That's if my natural crit doesn't occur.
You, GP, picked up all crit and maybe crit for 400-600. You got IE thinking that it was a 50% increase in dmg because you're not the brightest crayon in the box. IE is a 25% increase in crit dmg. You should have sacrificed some Crit% to get ArPen, or at least an AD item.
I'm done. If he continues, I'll give the floor to DEWO...
I keep in mind a moving target in my calcs. I put thought in my calcs. Otherwise we would be talking about how AS is better than Crit% and ArPen. Never do two players just stand there beating the ever living F### out of each other unless it's 2 Yi's trying to dominate with lifesteal/AS, or two really not bright tanks.
The point of speccing ArPen is so that you can buy dmg items. If you get to assume your fkn 100% crit BullS### I get to assume that I have the items that I wanted as well, which usually ends up being a lot of AD with some AS. Case in point, Pantheon having 3 Bloodthirsters and boots. My piddly 30 ArPen deals a massive 350dmg per normal strike on targets with less than/equal to 30 armor. But wait! There's more! I've only declared 4 items. I also have Ghostblade and Last Whisper. All targets below 100 armor now take true damage. Minimum of almost 400. That's if my natural crit doesn't occur.
You, GP, picked up all crit and maybe crit for 400-600. You got IE thinking that it was a 50% increase in dmg because you're not the brightest crayon in the box. IE is a 25% increase in crit dmg. You should have sacrificed some Crit% to get ArPen, or at least an AD item.
I'm done. If he continues, I'll give the floor to DEWO...
@ Darcurse
You're just fetching numbers out of thin air... All your calculations are very wrong because you use no concrete numbers. Try looking up a fully geared build, add the rune bonuses and then calculate. That's what I've done here, not made fantasy numbers to calc with..
You're just fetching numbers out of thin air... All your calculations are very wrong because you use no concrete numbers. Try looking up a fully geared build, add the rune bonuses and then calculate. That's what I've done here, not made fantasy numbers to calc with..
"every now and again you come across a game that has so little emotional connection to who you are that you end up standing there, gazing at the screen and saying "I'm just pressing buttons and my life has no meaning,"" - Colin Campbell
Omfg... sry to say if you wanna be serious... try something else.
Dunno how often i told ya that im talking about early to mid and now some fanboys keep popping up trying to shout in written form an ********ting me about full item builds....
If you wanna think, no.... if you can ****ing think for yourself already:
Yeah, i assumed a 100% crit chance to explain searz that this "ArP always better" ******** doesnt work. (<- Try combining this sentence with the thing about "3 hits" I talked about earlier)
If your enemys dont buy one shred of armor (which happened to be true for above 60-70% of all champs) you only need to crit every third hit to keep pace with ArP.
Yeah you can buy ArP in addition to crit chance later to buff your dmg even more. THAT WASNT THE ****ING QUESTION WHY WE´RE TALKING HERE!
Only to remind you: Crit chance or ArP early, THAT was the ****ing topic.
And Searz, sry for destroying your ego or sth. i dont need to put any more detail in my calcs, cause its true for EVERYTHING (considering the enemy dont buy any armor, but hey: I wasnt the one talking ******** about "crit gets mor viable above 170 armor")
And btw:
I´m not talking about "crit every third hit" and "reducing enemy armor completly" for no reason, cause that is what happens if you go full crit (around 30%) and full ArP (around 22 points) early. Its even worse for ArP.
Dunno how often i told ya that im talking about early to mid and now some fanboys keep popping up trying to shout in written form an ********ting me about full item builds....
If you wanna think, no.... if you can ****ing think for yourself already:
Yeah, i assumed a 100% crit chance to explain searz that this "ArP always better" ******** doesnt work. (<- Try combining this sentence with the thing about "3 hits" I talked about earlier)
If your enemys dont buy one shred of armor (which happened to be true for above 60-70% of all champs) you only need to crit every third hit to keep pace with ArP.
Yeah you can buy ArP in addition to crit chance later to buff your dmg even more. THAT WASNT THE ****ING QUESTION WHY WE´RE TALKING HERE!
Only to remind you: Crit chance or ArP early, THAT was the ****ing topic.
And Searz, sry for destroying your ego or sth. i dont need to put any more detail in my calcs, cause its true for EVERYTHING (considering the enemy dont buy any armor, but hey: I wasnt the one talking ******** about "crit gets mor viable above 170 armor")
And btw:
I´m not talking about "crit every third hit" and "reducing enemy armor completly" for no reason, cause that is what happens if you go full crit (around 30%) and full ArP (around 22 points) early. Its even worse for ArP.
Or you could always agree that getting a Ghostblade is a pretty damn good idea.
The way I see it: Crit chance is good UNTIL the tanks get farmed.
ex:
Ashe gets infinity edge! Yayy 450 crit dmg land happy happy
Uh-oh, wild Shen appeared. He used Sunfire Capes!
Ashe escapes! She decides to farm for a while. Ashe has come back with... Last Whisper!
Simple, by the time you're gonna be able to get any big damage crit items the tanks are going to be able to get a big armor item. Therefore if you're going to be relying on AD get a last whisper (I remeber some calculations that %reduction is less efficient the more flat ArP that you get). Even at that, there's always Madred's bloodrazor if you're going to be auto-attacking enough for Crit or ArP to affect you.
The way I see it: Crit chance is good UNTIL the tanks get farmed.
ex:
Ashe gets infinity edge! Yayy 450 crit dmg land happy happy
Uh-oh, wild Shen appeared. He used Sunfire Capes!
Ashe escapes! She decides to farm for a while. Ashe has come back with... Last Whisper!
Simple, by the time you're gonna be able to get any big damage crit items the tanks are going to be able to get a big armor item. Therefore if you're going to be relying on AD get a last whisper (I remeber some calculations that %reduction is less efficient the more flat ArP that you get). Even at that, there's always Madred's bloodrazor if you're going to be auto-attacking enough for Crit or ArP to affect you.
Darcurse wrote:
Dunno how often i told ya that im talking about early to mid and now some fanboys keep popping up trying to shout in written form an ********ting me about full item builds....
I just said that as an example. I've proven that armor pen beats crit chance at level 1.
Quoted:
Yeah, i assumed a 100% crit chance to explain searz that this "ArP always better" ******** doesnt work.
That makes no sense.. You have to use the correct numbers when calculating. Otherwise the answer will be completely wrong..
Quoted:
I´m not talking about "crit every third hit" and "reducing enemy armor completly" for no reason, cause that is what happens if you go full crit (around 30%) and full ArP (around 22 points) early. Its even worse for ArP.
Those numbers are so terribly wrong... Crit is 14% (without seals and glyphs) and armor pen is 25. Huge difference..
Bottom line: unless you prove my calculations wrong, they are correct. If they are correct it means that I've proven that armor pen always beats crit below ~150armor with low CrC and below ~170 with high CrC regardless of level or time during the round.
"I'm ebolakin. You can refer to me as Ebola-Chan." - Vurtax
"I also am Otherkin. Whenever autumn rolls around I can feel my kin-type slowly taking over my body. You must know, I identify as pumpkin. I can control it pretty good most of the time, but when September ends, I just cant hold it in anymore. Whenever Im outside I see my brothers and sisters being chopped into soup, coffee, donuts, cake, drinks, bread - ppl even cut human faces into their skin, making a mockery out of their noble appearance. When I see things like that I cant control my pumpkin urges anymore. My natural instincts kick in. I then sit down motionless, while getting bright orange." - Morgana L
"I also am Otherkin. Whenever autumn rolls around I can feel my kin-type slowly taking over my body. You must know, I identify as pumpkin. I can control it pretty good most of the time, but when September ends, I just cant hold it in anymore. Whenever Im outside I see my brothers and sisters being chopped into soup, coffee, donuts, cake, drinks, bread - ppl even cut human faces into their skin, making a mockery out of their noble appearance. When I see things like that I cant control my pumpkin urges anymore. My natural instincts kick in. I then sit down motionless, while getting bright orange." - Morgana L
Show me one champ that starts the game off with 0 armor, or even one champ that doesn't get +armor/lvl. Even Teemo starts off with 14 armor and gets 3.75/level. Early-mid, you can't even ensure a decent crit consistancy, let alone high dmg output. Best you can do for crit by lvl 6 is maybe 40%, which doesn't translate into 4/10 hits you crit, it translates into every attack has a 40% probability of being a crit. You have graduated from probable to possible, but not so far as likely.
Show me one champ who can even approach 100% crit chance by level 6. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke up your own arse. Even a 50% CrC doesn't mean that you will crit every other attack, it just means you have a good chance every attack. Just like flipping a coin, it doesn't come up heads every other time, but it could.
You just keep pulling stuff out of thin air to justify. First it was that CrC was better at 100%, which is only true on high (170+) armor champs. Then it was only during early-mid game. Now we're assuming 100% CrC at early-mid vs. no armor pen items. My god man, be consistant. We understand that you like CrC and that you feel it works very well for you. Look at the calc, plug in your own numbers (ones that are actually attainable though), and find where the turnover is.
Show me one champ who can even approach 100% crit chance by level 6. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke up your own arse. Even a 50% CrC doesn't mean that you will crit every other attack, it just means you have a good chance every attack. Just like flipping a coin, it doesn't come up heads every other time, but it could.
You just keep pulling stuff out of thin air to justify. First it was that CrC was better at 100%, which is only true on high (170+) armor champs. Then it was only during early-mid game. Now we're assuming 100% CrC at early-mid vs. no armor pen items. My god man, be consistant. We understand that you like CrC and that you feel it works very well for you. Look at the calc, plug in your own numbers (ones that are actually attainable though), and find where the turnover is.
@ Oberron
Teemo stars with 18 armor then, without any bonuses. Anyhow; noone should make any assumptions. It's much better to use known stats at a level and then adding some items that you'll probably have at that level.
Teemo stars with 18 armor then, without any bonuses. Anyhow; noone should make any assumptions. It's much better to use known stats at a level and then adding some items that you'll probably have at that level.
The moment a religious person unknowingly calls his own ways stupid: "And lol. I highly doubt you have magic powers. If you proved it I would believe you, but since you 'refuse to', I choose not to."
I was using the info from the LoL website. If they haven't updated, that's fine, otherwise... uhhh... our database may be behind...
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/champions/17/teemo_the_swift_scout
Armor 14 (+3.75 / per level)
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/champions/17/teemo_the_swift_scout
Armor 14 (+3.75 / per level)
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Btw: I rly would love to meet that ArP Gangplank.
And, yeah I´m getting bored of this,too....
Again, earlier expanation missing cause of post deleting:
Yeah, your calculations are right.
If your whacking an non-moving, non-thinking target...
Already explained that I´m not relating my buts to your calcs.
I´m just adding something thats not calcuable: thinking. The "unstable variable" remember?
The less hits you can get in, the more a crit becomes valuable.
The problem you dont see by sticking to your calculations is, that you take the average dmg as enough and granted, try to reduce it on a few hits.
For example just 1 hit:
100 dmg adding crit = 200 dmg reduced by armor by 20% = 160 dmg
100 dmg without reductin = 100 dmg
Dont see that your ArP doing always more dmg.
And also:
I read everything again and again and cant help but wonder, why the hell becomes crit viable after 170 Armor ??? Just thinking logical (yeah, im trying to use my brain instead of whatsoever formula):
Only-crit chance becomes more viable if the opponent reduce its dmg, even if you get the chance to decrease the reduction using more ArP???
I know, that there is a limit to how much you can reduce armor, but Only-crit chance is able to overcome it?
For example:
(1 hit again)
300 dmg adding crit = 600 dmg reduced by 60% armor = 240 dmg
300 dmg reduced by ~30% armor(60% - 30 ArP - 40% ArP (around 50% overall))= ~200 dmg
Its practical the same as before, Only-ArP even got a little bit closer to Only-crit.
(Yeah i calculated something. whoopie....)