Building Karthus: deviating from the...

[quote=gotoh]Hello fellow members. I found that [[liandry's torment]] should be a core item on [[karthus]] and was asking about your opinion on it. Karthus has poor Ap ratios on most of his abilities and the burn from the item can increase his DPS quite a lot. Moreover the penetration allows Karthus to have a much larger impact on the game at the early levels. The item also build from [[haunting guise]] which is a much better early game item than [[catalyst the protector]]. Finally it gives stats immediately instead of 10min later. Overall I think the item should be built after [[tear of the goddess]] to help Karthus in the early levels and to make him relevant in the early game (+ you can build other items to go in a sort of "Tanky" build). So what do you think?[/quote]

[quote=sirell]Dislike. You can go tanky with a [[catalyst the protector]] instead, or go with some sustain through [[chalice of harmony]]. Either way, I don't think it's really all the worthwhile building a [[liandry's torment]]. You can also rush a [[zhonya's hourglass]] instead.[/quote]

[quote=gotoh]I tend to disagree. [[chalice of harmony]] does not upgrade into anything useful for Karthus and is vastly outclassed by [[tear of the goddess]] in mana sustain [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDlP2jkf0e8]the math behind it[/url]. Moreover the catalyst does not give anything in offense compared to [[haunting guise]]. In the early levels most games in solo queue are decided in the first 20 minutes. Having some impact at this stage can change the course of a game very effectively. In addition Liandry's surpasses RoA in terms of damage and synergizes well with [[rylai's crystal scepter]], which is also a very interesting items for the perma slow it gives. The result is more presence in the early game, better poke and damage thanks to the burn as well as not having to wait 10 min to be fully charged.[/quote]

[quote=-NA- Veng Lmfao][[rod of ages]] and [[athene's unholy grail]] don't benefit [[karthus]]? Wat.[/quote]

[quote=Pheyniex][[Mikael's Crucible]] is very usefull.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]You want to increase [[karthus]]'s mana pool not increase his mana regen. During sustained fights you want to be able to keep your [[Defile]] on and spam [[Lay Waste]]. [[Chalice of Harmony]]/[[Athene's Unholy Grail]] can't keep up with the mana drain, hence why you increase your mana pool with items like [[Rod of Ages]] and [[Tear of the Goddess]]. As far as [[Liandry's Torment]] I'd be surprised if it could find a spot. You generally want [[Rabadon's Deathcap]], [[Sorcerer's Shoes]], [[Seraph's Embrace]], [[Rod of Ages]], and [[Void Staff]]. That pretty much leaves one item slot open and I'm not so sure Liandry's is worth it.[/quote]

[quote=utopus][quote=gotoh] Karthus has poor Ap ratios on most of his abilities [/quote] Yes, his ap ratios are crappy, and yet he has possibly the best late game scaling out of any AP carry. AP ratios aren't everything. Having a low AP ratio just means that he doesn't have much burst damage - which, shouldn't come to much of a surprise. Most karthus players know this and simply whittle their opponent down in lane and finish them with requiem. [url=http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Varnagas/AP_scaling_per_second]There is this notion of AP/second[/url] however. This is quite a useful read. It justifies that while karthus has pretty bad ap ratios, he will deal the most damage in team fight over a long period of time. With this in mind, I think that karthus doesn't need [[liandry's torment]] to supplement his damage - rather survivability to that he can live longer and deal more damage to his opponents in a team fight. Thoughts?[/quote]

[quote=gotoh][quote=Mooninites] As far as [[Liandry's Torment]] I'd be surprised if it could find a spot. You generally want [[Rabadon's Deathcap]], [[Sorcerer's Shoes]], [[Seraph's Embrace]], [[Rod of Ages]], and [[Void Staff]]. That pretty much leaves one item slot open and I'm not so sure Liandry's is worth it. [/quote] Personally i'd take it over RoA in certain situations. Getting tear + catalyst really delays any damage built and makes you less relevant in engagements at the lower levels. Getting Liandry's allows you to be powerful immediately and against some fast pushing comps its very useful. Moreover you do more damage than with RoA late game thanks to the burn and penetration. Moreover in a very particular build without the deathcap and with [[rylai's crystal scepter]], [[abyssal scepter]] and [[zhonya's hourglass]], the burn compensates your lack of damage as you favor tankiness. (there is more info in my Karthus guide about this build)[/quote]

[quote=Melchee]His AP Ratios seems bad, but his Q has a 30% scalling and is spammable like hell and his aura with "just" 20% is a DoT aura which can hit a lot of enemies at once. He isn't able to dish out his scallings in form from burst, but if he can survive a bit and get his DoT on the enemies his damage from his AP scallings is greater than from other AP carries.[/quote]

[quote=gotoh]I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying his Ap ratios are bad in a negative sense but they appear bad to compensate the ridiculous damage he can put out in a long period of time (he is actually second to Cassiopeia in Single target damage over a fixed amount of time). I'm saying he should take liandry's as it essentially adds a 2% of current health burn to all of his damage, which is a substantial amount. Moreover the item really helps him melt tanks down.[/quote]