Items for Graves

[quote=Kirluu]You can't really put out a full build for endgame. As mentioned by some of the above, it is situational. Black Cleaver if you face a team with like 4 squishies and one tank, and Last Whisper if you face people stacking armor on you. That is just one example of course. If what you're looking for is a direct guideline, I do suppose that you don't go too wrong with the following: Instant [[Infinity Edge]], then [[Phantom Dancer]], [[Bloodthirster]](Could be 2), [[Last Whisper]]/[[Black Cleaver]]. If you don't get the second Bloodthirster, I can see a [[Frozen Mallet]] being usable, but not an essential item. If you feel it will help you out, then take it, as it gives a great deal of health as well.[/quote]

[quote=example1013]Never buy TBC. First off since it's an applied debuff (meaning it's a reduction of their stats, not a boost to yours) you need to stack the on-hit with AAs before you use abilities, or you don't get any arpen bonus on Buckshot OR Collateral Damage. Second, with just 100 armor Last Whisper gives 40 arpen, which is almost as much as all three stacks of TBC. 100 armor endgame is just base armor, then seals, then like Wriggle's or GA. And actually with GA LW provides more penetration, because they'll hit around 115. And I did the math, and even counting abilities (which obviously don't scale off AS) 2 PD gives almost as much damage as 2 BT (like 200 less damage over 8 secondss) [i]without[/i] factoring in any kind of crit. Factoring in crit (I didn't want to bother with the math) the dps increase gets to be pretty damn ridiculous.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Actually, [[vayne]] doesn't need [[infinity edge]]. She works better with either [[the bloodthirster]]([[condemn]] orientated) or [[wriggle's lantern]]+[[the black cleaver]](Split pushing and [[silver bolts]] orientated). After those [[phantom dancer]]+[[quicksilvar sash]]. Finally, [[trinity force]] and [[guardian angel]]. Graves I think would work best with [[the bloodthirster]] because he is more an ad-caster-carry. And he has an as-steroid.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]lmafo Nick, nonono. Don't ever get tbc on Vayne, that's worse then getting triforce on a non offtank vayne.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Say that to chaox...[/quote]

[quote=Maserato]Chaos takes cleAver on ez mr and corki as well. He rushes it a lot too. it's just not that great though and bloodthirster or is would help a lot more winning lanes or trades[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Well, but if your first item is [[wriggle's lantern]], i can see that it works better than [[the bloodthirster]], because wriggle's already offers lifesteal. Also, more AS means more pushing power. The main reason behind this is splitpushing.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden][quote=NicknameMy] Actually, [[vayne]] doesn't need [[infinity edge]]. She works better with either [[the bloodthirster]]([[condemn]] orientated) or [[wriggle's lantern]]+[[the black cleaver]](Split pushing and [[silver bolts]] orientated). After those [[phantom dancer]]+[[quicksilvar sash]]. Finally, [[trinity force]] and [[guardian angel]]. Graves I think would work best with [[the bloodthirster]] because he is more an ad-caster-carry. And he has an as-steroid. [/quote] Because [[Vayne]] Is not like the carry that scales best with crit like at all.. I might be wrong though. zeal-IE-Phantom. All-day erry day, So much MS so much damage![/quote]

[quote=Xaioli]The standard build for all AD's. *Doran's Blade (With sustain lane) or Boots HP x3 (With a non-sustain lane) *BF Sword (Great farm, winning lane and mopping the floor with the enemies) or Triple Doran's Blade/Boots (Main goal is Triple Dorans and Greaves. I call this the "snowball build".) *IE (Really, almost every AD uses IE and I really don't need to explain why. Since above posts are for Graves and Vayne, definitely.) *Zeal/Phantom Dancer (You're aiming for a PD. Zeal is cheaper and almost the same, but if you can get a PD, get it.) *Last Whisper (+40% Armor Pen is pretty damn good. They WILL have to build armor or keep getting eaten alive. After your IE, LW and PD, you need to build some defense items. If you're struggling against Magic (majority of the time), you want QSS to break supress/stuns or Banshee's Veil. QSS is obviously cheaper and can cleanse all of your debuffs at once but Banshee's gives a nice amount of HP, MP and a bubble that's good for one screw up. If you're struggling against an AD character, Frozen Mallet is real strong. Kiting with an AD is easy, you can definitely do it. After your "defense" item, just build whatever you need. Builds are all under certain circumstances. If you need more defense, go ahead -- most players pile damage items(such as BT, MBR, etc) on though after the "defense item". Basically, all you need is PD, IE, LW. And I'll clarify it once more. Vayne can use crit pretty effectively. The only time where you should be skeptical about crit on an AD is on champions like Ezreal where his Mystic Shot (almost highest hitting source of damage) cannot crit. Vayne's Condemn does pretty well and scales with flat AD but her insane attack speed rate with the flow of Silver Bolts makes her lethal. AKA, big crits + Silver Bolts op[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]TBC is if the enemies you're targetting have a little bit of armor. Last Whisper is if the enemies you're facing have a lot of armor. You're generally not focused on one target as the ADC, therefore getting Last Whisper is usually better. TBC works better on some champs who try to single out enemies to skirmishes.[/quote]