Manamune opinions

[quote=MyRepublic]My maths on urgot with frozen heart and manamune at full stacks giving you 81.2 damage total. it is 890 gold less than a BT which is over half of a B.F. Sword. With just those two items you have 3060 mana which is ridiculous. Add in banshee's veil And it's 89 bonus AD on urgot and 3435 mana. As a fully built urgot you get more AD out of this than you would an IE, and as much as a mostly stacked BT, except you can't lose stacks. Since getting these three items is a normal build on urgot how can you argue that it's not a great item on him? You may say "yeah man, but that's at full stacks lol. How do you propose you get there?" Well for one his Q is on a two second CD while manamune's passive is on a 3 sec cooldown. That means you can stack it every three seconds plus your auto attacks. It's possible to fully stack it in under ten minutes (although more likely it'll take about 15). Also as soon as you buy it without any other items you'll have about 51 damage (less if you're not level 18) with no other items. With frozen heart you get 61 AD which is as much as a non-stacked BT. So following a normal urgot build of getting a frozen heart and a banshee's veil getting a non-stacked manamune gives you as much ad as a nonstacked BT for a little less than 1000 gold less. I am much too lazy to do math for ezreal, but there it is for urgot.[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999]Manamune takes a [i]minimum[/i] of 10 minutes to fully stack (assuming it isn't stacked beforehand, it's completely empty). 1000 / 5 = 200 / 20 = 10 1000 (total mana) / 5 (max mana gained in 3 second intervals) = 200 / 20 (3 seconds * 20 = 60 seconds or a minute) = 10 minutes[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=tehAsian] Yah Duff, but I remember someone arguing it's JUST a chunk of AD and mana, and is therefore not worth it. *coughLugicough* >.> [/quote] Again, I feel like people aren't soaking in what I've been saying. I know Manamune is not the best item in the world. In fact I specifically said it's a bad item. Ezreal is one of the rare cases where having an endless mana pool can be better than having anything else. It -can- be better than having an Infinity Edge. (It's not inherently better, but it -can- be better. Standard AD carry items turn Ezreal into a right clicker who can't spam his abilites. That can be okay in some games, and in others it might be the death of you.) Not many champions can say that, but Ezreal can. [quote=Jpikachu1999] I don't understand this whole mentality, specifically at Ez, where [[Manamune]] gives "no damage". With 0 other mana enhancers, [[Manamune]] gives Ezreal 90 AD at max mana and level 18. That's more than [[Infinity Edge]], that's almost as much as a full BT. What is so wrong about that? [/quote] Exactly, and even more importantly, it allows Ezreal to be Ezreal. And it's really cheap. It's like buying Wriggle's on a jungler. It's not a crushing end game AD carry item, but it's still really good for other reasons. Also like other people mentioned, as a stand alone Manamune isn't going to give 90 AD. HOWEVER, MANAMUNE IS JUST A 2K INVESTMENT. Keep that in mind when talking about AD totals, 70 Ad for 2k is awesome. [quote=PsiGuard] Personally I think it works pretty well both ways. I like building Ez without Manamune, but running out of mana when you could get a kill really sucks, especially since I usually like to lane with Janna, not Soraka (no free mana sustain). From my limited experienced with building Manamune, I can say that it doesn't hurt your damage much and the sustain from Tear is really nice. The main thing your losing out on is the early game damage that you're sacrificing in favor of building and stacking Tear. Late game, Manamune makes a pretty solid AD item, though I'm a little unsure of whether I'd want it late game. It doesn't seem like it would fit very well into a 6 item ADC build. I might just sell it at that point actually. [/quote] This is exactly why you DO NOT rush the tear to stack it. You build BT first and tear immediately after. Also, the mana isn't just for landing kills. You need infinite mana if you want to actively USE Ezreal's passive for a damage booster. Late game Manamune is inferior to other item's in terms of ADC stats, but what it allows -Ezreal in specific- to do is worth the sacrifice in my mind. [quote=MyRepublic] My maths on urgot with frozen heart and manamune at full stacks [/quote] Can we just stop talking about Frozen Heart Ezreal? I feel like I'm in a crazy house every time somebody says Frozen heart and Ezreal in the same sentence (Unless you're buying it to nerf the enemy Ezreal's damages.) I would like to start a petition that we all forget that anybody ever mentioned Frozen Heart Ez... Please, for my sake, nobody ever do this. Please? :/ [quote=Jpikachu1999] Manamune takes a [i]minimum[/i] of 10 minutes to fully stack (assuming it isn't stacked beforehand, it's completely empty). 1000 / 5 = 200 / 20 = 10 1000 (total mana) / 5 (max mana gained in 3 second intervals) = 200 / 20 (3 seconds * 20 = 60 seconds or a minute) = 10 minutes [/quote] This is honestly semi irrelevant. You aren't -really- buying the Manamune for the Damage. It's for the mana which enables you to jump around and buff your team and spam Q's forever. The damage is what makes it a very legitimate pick up, yes, but the focus of the item is the mana. If you just wanted damage, there are better items. I've even gone BT -> Tear -> Trinity before, but then I realized that the bonus damage for 1k is really worth it. BT -> Manamune actually does a lot of damage on Ez.[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999]That second response was not aimed specifically at Ezreal. MyRepublic said "You may say "yeah man, but that's at full stacks lol. How do you propose you get there?" Well for one his Q is on a two second CD while manamune's passive is on a 3 sec cooldown. That means you can stack it every three seconds plus your auto attacks. It's possible to fully stack it in [b]under ten minutes[/b]". I was just trying to point out it is impossible to fully stack in under 10 minutes. Also, I made myself look like an absolute retard earlier. So, yeah ...[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Yeah wellp, I just wanted to point it out because I think people are burying their noses in the damage aspect of Manamune. For clarity, if anybody is wondering why people buy Manamune, it is not for the damage. Nobody would ever buy Manamune just for the damage. No champion in this entire game. They want the mana first, and the damage is what makes it a reasonable purchase.[/quote]

[quote=MyRepublic]^ Spam all the spells. Plus they do more damage.[/quote]

[quote=Babit]I like the logic behind it all. What really stuck with me is having infinite mana to keep passive up, that never struck my mind. I hate trying to stack my passive as fast as possible in exchanges. Giving that more up time really does open a lot of opportunities. 50% AS can make all the difference in a fight. Definitely going to experiment with an early sheen>manamune build maxing w first.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]2x Dblades -> BT -> Manamune -> Trinity. Thank me later, l0lz. I wouldn't even build the Sheen portion of the item, personally speaking. Early game your "Base AD" is low and the value won't really be truly cost efficient. Zeal would come after Manamune for move speed and then Phage for utility and Tforce after, skipping Sheen entirely. That's my preferred build ^_^ As previously mentioned you should be in the 350 AD range with those items, and you can go from there into LW or I.E or whatever you prefer, depending on what you're looking for. ^__^ But yeah, in my opinion Ez passive being permanently stacked is what makes the Manamune build viable, since you really don't need to build a PD at all. You can go Trinity -> I.E if you want after the BT / Manamune and your passive will have you attacking faster. Don't forget your W stacks it up quickly, and you can always q - q - q - q - q to both damage and stack passive and then quickly shift in and w right click q spam something to death. I bring it up, because it might feel wrong to spam everything in conjunction if you're not used to it.[/quote]

[quote=Babit]I build differently almost every game. The build I'm thinking about I would bring out vs a kog or vayne. You would be surprised at the amount of burst damage you do maxing w first with an early sheen. W is doing about 200 damage when you get sheen(lv6 or so), and it resets auto so it gives you a quick sheen proc. Follow that up with a q for almost another 200 damage. If you bring in AAs it can easily climb to 550 damage. Factor in ulti and extra deeps from support and you will normally gib somebody. Most of the time though I just go double doran maxing q and improvise off of that point. I love the versatility on ezreal more than anything.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Oh, that's true. Yet Q still scales 100% with AD, and so even if you max W you're getting the same thing out of your Q. At the end of the day, either way your functional damage output will be comparable no matter what items you build. Ez is versatile yeah. I actually think end game AP Ez is one of the highest damage dealing AP carries as well. He's just soooo... Sub Par/Average until he hits end game as an AP carry.[/quote]