MOBAFire Lend me your Wisdom! ~Comprehensive...

[quote=Fox Rage][quote=Searz] Low elo guy right here. [quote=Fox Rage] [[Sivir]] and [[Morgana]] counter [[veigar]] so hard[/quote] 90% of the champions in game counter Veigar in lane. He's so bad it's not even funny.. [quote][[Gangplank]] counter [[Fiddlesticks]] very well[/quote] Because of the healing reduction? Meeeeh.. not really.. Jungle Fiddle is more standard anyways. [quote][[Nasus]] counter [[Xin Zhao]] and [[Tryndamere]] and every other Attack Speed nwwding champ (except [[Master Yi]] since his ulti makes you unable to slow him or lower his AS)[/quote] Haha, no. (that those statement is wrong) [/quote] Let me explain myself. 1. Gangplank is a great counter to Fiddlestick because of his scurvy heal (AKA skill-version-of-QSS). It cancel the fear. A Fiddlestick without fear is like a Rammus without taunt. It's nothing. Unless he uses ulti of course. Then again, if he doesn't fear you, his damage output is greatly reduced. 2. Wither, best slow of the game, wich also greatly reduce AS. That skill kills a Xin or a Tryn so easily. If you lower their attack speed, both champions's damage output is greatly reduce. I'm very far from being the best player on LoL, but i'm also very far from being the worst player. I juist gave my opinion, and personal experience. Thats all. When i play GP, I litteraly destroy fidlesticks. When I play Nasus, I literraly destroy XIn and Tryn. SImple as that. I gave my opinion, he can take it, or leave it. EDIT: Might not be the best counters, but they do the job very well.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=Fox Rage] Gangplank is a great counter to Fiddlestick because of his scurvy heal (AKA skill-version-of-QSS). It cancel the fear. A Fiddlestick without fear is like a Rammus without taunt. It's nothing.[/quote] Meeeeeh, not really. There's a lot of champions who beat fiddle in lane. (unless he surprises them with an ult ofc. [quote]Might not be the best counters, but they do the job very well.[/quote] Then let me tell you that good against=/=counter.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][[Yorick]] counters [[Mordekaiser]], because he can easily outlane him and his Ultimate counter's Morde's Ulti.[/quote]

[quote=Mowen][[Janna]] counters AOE ult teams - ex: [[amumu]] / [[vladimir]] / [[kennen]] / [[fiddlesticks]] If they're counting on ults to win, pick Janna [[Zilean]] counters Single Target burst teams, think teams with suppresses like [[malzahar]] and [[warwick]], or teams with little AOE that are relying on taking 1 champ out fast to make it 4v5.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=Mowen] [[soraka]] counters [[karthus]] - doesn't let him / team snowball from kills [[shen]] counters [[twisted fate]] / [[nocturne]] / [[pantheon]] - turns ganks into counterganks [/quote] I'd also like to speak on this. [[Nocturne]] counters both [[Twisted fate]] and [[Shen]] If Shen loses sight on someone, his ult fails. If TF can't see where he's going... he might be screwed...[/quote]

[quote=Searz]^Actually, I'm pretty sure Shen can use the portraits at the side to target allied champions. So he isn't countered by Noc. That almost requires voice communication tho.[/quote]

[quote=XamuraiShogun]Thanks for all the replies guys! I am loving that this theory/testing of counters is getting the views necessary. I also encourage all people to consider giving more insight via reasons I am going to organize all of this with Excel but the number of oounters are very insufficient. Your beloved mains and your subs, Give me all your insight to who counters them and who they counter Thanks Searz for some clearing up on some stuff Peace XamuraiShogun[/quote]

[quote=Virtus]Olaf counters Alistar because he does true damage (aka he can kill Alistar during Alistar's ult and Olaf's ult makes him invulnerable to CC). [Irelia with maxed Hiten style can also penetrate Alistar ult very well]. However, I really wouldn't pick Olaf just as because the other team had Alistar. Anivia counters Annie because she has a greater range (skills) than Annie and has normal attacks with range comparable to Annie (laning phase factor). Brand does pretty well (better than other AP carries) against top-lane bruisers due to his passive and spaminess. Cassiopia early game forces people to path very randomly and therefore miss CS or take lots of damage from Q. This can deny CS and therefore she counters champions who rely on farm (Jax, Anivia, Irelia, etc.). Ryze counters many top lane bruisers because he has high sustained damage while also being beefy. Kassadin counters AP carries (long-range low CD silence nuke+blink ability to avoid damage). Malzahar can go toe-to-toe with Gragas because he can push as hard as Gragas can while maintaining his mana, while also countering Gragas's natural tankiness with Null Zone. Malzahar ult can be countered by QSS and Gangplank E. Karthus with his ult counters Tryndamere and his ult. Kog'maw counters Tanky DPS due to his W and with a Madred's Bloodrazor. LeBlanc counters AP carries in mid except for Kassadin (bad experiences there) due to her huge burst combined with a silence+burst on low CD with Q. Honestly I don't really think Morgana is a counter to AP carries. She can negate some of their damage, but sustained AP carries do alright against her (Brand, Ryze, Vladimir). Vladimir along with his pool can escape from the wrath of many AP carries with non-instantaneous skills (Brand, Annie, Anivia, Karthus ult) and sustains himself well in lane versus heavy harrasment (Katarina, Rumble, Karthus) Early-Mid game Zilean can rape everyone's health with double bombs so can counter other AP carries mid. Yeah I mostly play AP carries :) Hope some of that helps and if there is controversy with what I say I will be happy to debate. However, in the end, player skill must be always kept into account, even with counter-picks, as I mentioned with Morgana, whom I don't like very much.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]Err what? Tryn kinda counters Karthus's ult, Malz doesn't really counter Gragas since he's tanky and is tanky with his damage reduc, doesn't really need to build tanky to be tanky. Zilean doesn't rape anyone's hp with double bombs as I see it, his damage is nice but he's so squishy and his damage still isn't as nice as a true AP carry. @ Searz Nasus actually is a bit of a soft counter to most melees, especially Tryn. :c[/quote]

[quote=Virtus][quote=Nighthawk] Err what? Tryn kinda counters Karthus's ult, Malz doesn't really counter Gragas since he's tanky and is tanky with his damage reduc, doesn't really need to build tanky to be tanky. Zilean doesn't rape anyone's hp with double bombs as I see it, his damage is nice but he's so squishy and his damage still isn't as nice as a true AP carry. [/quote=Nighthawk] Should have been more specific with the first one: Karthus can catch Tryndamere easily after Tryn escapes with ult. Its pretty much the reason I play Karthus at all. For Gragas he naturally has more health than most other AP carries, and I was thinking more along the lines of Gragas can pretty much destroy a creep wave with a Q+E after even a decently leveled Q, which can make opponents lose farm to the tower. Malzahar can counter push this better than other carries because he has mana regen with E, countering Gragas mana regen. Honestly, that is my main problem against a Gragas. His double bombs do 290 damage when he is level 3 can't be countered because the skill is applied instantaneously and has good range. He is squishy but then again so are all AP carries but he is better off due to his ult. He does fall off late game but if you can end the game before he falls off he is gold (Reginald and his Zilean a demonstration of this).[/quote]