MOBAFire Lend me your Wisdom! ~Comprehensive...

[quote=Searz]Olaf isn't in a good spot right now. His lategame is strong, but his early and midgame is pretty weak. He's a pretty weak jungler right now. There are just too many other good junglers that outperform him.[/quote]

[quote=Khazem]I'll try and contribute by telling you what I know for sure Akali: countered by Lee Sin and Garen Alistar: countered by Cho'Gath and Vayne Anivia: countered by Kassadin and Ryze Annie: countered by champions that can both outrange and outpush her while being able to survive her combo (Anivia, Brand, Malzahar, Gragas, Zilean mainly) Caitlyn: 'countered' by Kog'Maw and Urgot Cho'Gath: countered by Garen, Udyr, Vayne Fiddlesticks: 'countered' by Lee Sin, Gragas, Janna, Tristana Galio: Ult countered by Gragas and Tristana (maybe Janna too but I don't think her ult outranges Galio's taunt) Garen: countered by Ryze, Teemo Heimerdinger: countered by Nunu (nomnom turrets) Irelia: countered by Jax, Garen, Renekton, Jarvan IV Karthus: countered by Akali, Gragas, Soraka, Janna (sort of) Kassadin: countered by Ryze Mordekaiser: countered by Garen, Talon, Yorick (trololo his ult with yours) Nasus: countered by Garen, Jax, Ryze in lane, countered by Janna, Vayne outside of laning phase Udyr: countered by Garen in lane, Janna outside of laning phase[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=Khazem] Akali: countered by Lee Sin and Garen Alistar: countered by Cho'Gath and Vayne Galio: Ult countered by Gragas and Tristana (maybe Janna too but I don't think her ult outranges Galio's taunt) Heimerdinger: countered by Nunu (nomnom turrets)[/quote] These are true. [quote]Anivia: countered by Kassadin and Ryze Fiddlesticks: 'countered' by Lee Sin, Gragas, Janna, Tristana[/quote] These are soft counters. [quote]Garen: countered by Ryze, Teemo Cho'Gath: countered by Garen, Udyr, Vayne Irelia: countered by Jax, Garen, Renekton, Jarvan IV Mordekaiser: countered by Garen, Talon, Yorick (trololo his ult with yours) Nasus: countered by Garen, Jax, Ryze in lane, countered by Janna, Vayne outside of laning phase Udyr: countered by Garen in lane, Janna outside of laning phase Karthus: countered by Akali, Gragas, Soraka, Janna (sort of) Caitlyn: 'countered' by Kog'Maw and Urgot[/quote] Wtf? Some are correct in that they counter them in lane, but most are just flat out wrong. [quote]Kassadin: countered by Ryze[/quote] Really? really?... Ryze doesn't stand a chance, Kassadin counters him (in lane).[/quote]

[quote=Khazem][quote=Searz] [quote]Garen: countered by Ryze, Teemo Cho'Gath: countered by Garen, Udyr, Vayne Irelia: countered by Jax, Garen, Renekton, Jarvan IV Mordekaiser: countered by Garen, Talon, Yorick (trololo his ult with yours) Nasus: countered by Garen, Jax, Ryze in lane, countered by Janna, Vayne outside of laning phase Udyr: countered by Garen in lane, Janna outside of laning phase Karthus: countered by Akali, Gragas, Soraka, Janna (sort of) Caitlyn: 'countered' by Kog'Maw and Urgot[/quote] Wtf? Some are correct in that they counter them in lane, but most are just flat out wrong. [/quote] Most of these are meant as counters in lane and are well known counters to be honest [quote=Searz] [quote]Kassadin: countered by Ryze[/quote] Really? really?... Ryze doesn't stand a chance, Kassadin counters him (in lane). [/quote] Wat? Ryze is a hard counter to Kassadin in lane. His core build rushes banshees and he simply does more damage in a trade + his root counters his ability to get away with his ult[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=Khazem] Most of these are meant as counters in lane and are well known counters to be honest[/quote] Like I said; some are counters in the lane, BUT most are just flat out wrong. [quote][quote=Searz] [quote]Kassadin: countered by Ryze[/quote] Really? really?... Ryze doesn't stand a chance, Kassadin counters him (in lane).[/quote] Wat? Ryze is a hard counter to Kassadin in lane. His core build rushes banshees and he simply does more damage in a trade + his root counters his ability to get away with his ult[/quote] That is if you have a jungler to rely on (a jungler with good ganks, like Nocturne). Kassadin can just stay defensive and eat Ryze when he gets blue buff. I was quite hasty in saying that Kassadin counters Ryze though. I think they're about equal in the lane now that I'm thinking about it.[/quote]

[quote=Khazem][quote=Searz] Like I said; some are counters in the lane, BUT most are just flat out wrong. [/quote] I suppose I can elaborate on why I listed them as counters Garen: countered by Ryze, Teemo - Ryze is pretty self explanatory.. Garen can't even get near creeps against Ryze, Teemo can just blind his Q's and simply counter his movespeed buff with his own and stay at a distance to harass Garen. Cho'Gath: countered by Garen, Udyr, Vayne - Garen counters pretty much any champion that relies on getting in melee range to last hit, not even Cho'Gath can deal with a Q -> E or even outsustain it (he needs to be in melee range of creeps to get his health back in which case Garen just takes even more health), Udyr can also just outdamage his sustain while Cho can't do anything back (both Garen and Udyr are not only from what I've seen/experienced but also been said by probably the best Cho'Gath player in the world, HotshotGG) Vayne's true damage/ability to tumble out of ruptures wrecks Cho'Gath in lane and anywhere else tbh. Irelia: countered by Jax, Garen, Renekton, Jarvan IV - These are pretty well known counters for any Irelia player, don't really have to explain these. Mordekaiser: countered by Garen, Talon, Yorick (trololo his ult with yours) - Silences and huge burst are a huge counter to Mordekaiser, hence Garen and Talon Nasus: countered by Garen, Jax, Ryze in lane, countered by Janna, Vayne outside of laning phase - Obvious counters for laning phase, counters to Nasus outside are mainly slows/CC (Janna) and kiting/true damage (Vayne) Udyr: countered by Garen in lane, Janna outside of laning phase - Same deal as before, Garen shits on anyone who has to be in melee to last hit/sustain. Outside of laning phase Udyr is countered by being kited, for which Janna is the best champion (Janna also said to be a counter to Udyr by Saintvicious) Karthus: countered by Akali, Gragas, Soraka, Janna (sort of) - Akali and Gragas both kill Karthus in a single combo, I guess you can add Talon here too - nothing Karthus can do to all 3 of these once they hit 6. Soraka and Janna for the AoE heal and shields to save people from his ult. Caitlyn: 'countered' by Kog'Maw and Urgot - In a recent Chaox interview, these 2 were mentioned as very good picks against Cait as they both outrange her in a way. As for Ryze vs Kassadin. I kinda meant this as if it was a 1v1 situation. Sure Kassadin can stay back but in that case Ryze will outfarm Kassadin by tons, if he doesn't stay back he'll just get wrecked, EVEN if Kassadin has blue.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=Khazem] Garen: countered by Ryze, Teemo - Ryze is pretty self explanatory.. Garen can't even get near creeps against Ryze, Teemo can just blind his Q's and simply counter his movespeed buff with his own and stay at a distance to harass Garen. Mordekaiser: countered by Garen, Talon, Yorick (trololo his ult with yours) - Silences and huge burst are a huge counter to Mordekaiser, hence Garen and Talon Cho'Gath: countered by Garen, Udyr, Vayne - Garen counters pretty much any champion that relies on getting in melee range to last hit, not even Cho'Gath can deal with a Q -> E or even outsustain it (he needs to be in melee range of creeps to get his health back in which case Garen just takes even more health), Udyr can also just outdamage his sustain while Cho can't do anything back (both Garen and Udyr are not only from what I've seen/experienced but also been said by probably the best Cho'Gath player in the world, HotshotGG) Vayne's true damage/ability to tumble out of ruptures wrecks Cho'Gath in lane and anywhere else tbh.[/quote] Hmm, these are probably right. I just prolly didn't think enough about it. [quote]Irelia: countered by Jax, Garen, Renekton, Jarvan IV - These are pretty well known counters for any Irelia player, don't really have to explain these.[/quote] Irelia can handle Jarvan, I think and MAYBE, just maybe Jax. [quote]Nasus: countered by Garen, Jax, Ryze in lane, countered by Janna, Vayne outside of laning phase - Obvious counters for laning phase, counters to Nasus outside are mainly slows/CC (Janna) and kiting/true damage (Vayne)[/quote] Nasus is REALLY strong once he hits lvl6. I don't think Garen and Jax counters him. Maybe Ryze, but that's just a maybe. Vayne doesn't really counter him outside of the lane. Janna may be a soft counter. [quote]Udyr: countered by Garen in lane, Janna outside of laning phase - Same deal as before, Garen shits on anyone who has to be in melee to last hit/sustain. Outside of laning phase Udyr is countered by being kited, for which Janna is the best champion (Janna also said to be a counter to Udyr by Saintvicious)[/quote] Janna may be kind of a counter, since that slow of hers is devastating against someone without any range. Still, I don't know if I'd call it a counter (maybe a soft counter?). Garen counters good in lane, I think. [quote]Karthus: countered by Akali, Gragas, Soraka, Janna (sort of) - Akali and Gragas both kill Karthus in a single combo, I guess you can add Talon here too - nothing Karthus can do to all 3 of these once they hit 6. Soraka and Janna for the AoE heal and shields to save people from his ult.[/quote] Soraka and Janna, yes. But Akali and Gragas are more like soft counters to him. He can just build ROA and not be glass thin like most Karthus players build him. [quote]Caitlyn: 'countered' by Kog'Maw and Urgot - In a recent Chaox interview, these 2 were mentioned as very good picks against Cait as they both outrange her in a way.[/quote] Urgot is prolly a soft counter if in bot lane (hard counter in solo lane), but Kog doesn't counter Cait.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]Anybody notice that Garen seems to be countering just about everybody? NERF NAO![/quote]

[quote=Searz]He's just really strong.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]dayum so many posts to do shit [quote]Akali: countered by Lee Sin and Garen[/quote] Lee Sin yes, Garen is more of a soft counter, Akali can still kill Garen in laning phase, and outside of laning phase yes Garen has an edge, but Akali can still shroud and not get silenced. [quote]Alistar: countered by Cho'Gath and Vayne[/quote] mmm, i'm kinda doubtful about whether Cho truly counters him. [quote]Annie: countered by champions that can both outrange and outpush her while being able to survive her combo (Anivia, Brand, Malzahar, Gragas, Zilean mainly)[/quote] mmm, Anivia no (to mana hungry, and Annie has superior burst and better sustain, zilean also no, annie outfarms outpokes and outdamages zilean) [quote]Caitlyn: 'countered' by Kog'Maw and Urgot[/quote] Urgot yes, Kog no. I actually think Cait might counter Kog a bit. [quote]Garen: countered by Ryze, Teemo[/quote] Def not. Garen loses to Ryze in lane, and Teemo can't do shit against Garen. [quote]Mordekaiser: countered by Garen, Talon, Yorick (trololo his ult with yours)[/quote] No. Garen doesn't counter Morde, 100% certain on that. Talon and Yorick probably can, but i'm doubtful about them. [quote]Nasus: countered by Garen, Jax, Ryze in lane, countered by Janna, Vayne outside of laning phase[/quote] No. Vayne doesn't counter him, Jax doesn't really counter him (bit of a soft counter though), Janna doesn't counter him either. [quote]Udyr: countered by Garen in lane, Janna outside of laning phase[/quote] lolwut. No. Garen, not really, a lil bit. Janna, def not.[/quote]