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My 2 actual working reworks, Ryze and Xin

Creator: NicknameMy
April 11, 2012 1:42am
32 posts page 1 of 4 Forums » Theory Crafting & Ideation » My 2 actual working reworks, Ryze and Xin
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » April 11, 2012 1:42am | Report
Quoted:
Arcane Mastery (Innate): When Ryze casts a spell, all other spells have their cooldown reduced by 1 second.

Overload (Passive): Ryze gains cooldown reduction.

Cooldown Reduction: 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 / 10%
(Active): Ryze throws a charge of pure energy at an enemy unit, dealing magic damage plus additional damage equal to 6% of Ryze's maximum mana.

Cooldown: 3.5 seconds
Range: 675
Projectile speed: 1400

Cost: 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 Mana

Magic Damage: 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 (+0.50 per ability power) (+5% of max mana)



Rune Prison (Active): Ryze snares an enemy unit, preventing movement. Upon casting, this spell also deals magic damage plus additional damage equal to 2% of Ryze's maximum mana.

Cooldown: 14 seconds
Range: 675

Cost: 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 Mana

Magic Damage: 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 (+0.20 per ability power) (+2% of max mana)

Duration: 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 seconds



Spell Flux (Active): Ryze unleashes a bouncing orb of magical power which bounces to enemy units or himself, up to 5 times (for total of 6 hits). Each bounce deals magic damage plus 3% of Ryze's maximum mana and reduces the target's magic resistance for 5 seconds.

Cooldown: 14 seconds
Range: 675
Splash Range: 700

Cost: 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 Mana

Magic Resist Reduction: 12 / 15 / 18 / 21 / 24

Magic Damage: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 (+0.30 per ability power) (+3% of max mana)



Desperate Power (Passive): Every spellcast, Ryze gains bonus Mana. This stacks up to 5 times and last for 4 sec after the last spell was cast. This mana can't be used to cast spells and will be displayed grey in the HUD.

Bonus Mana: 50 / 75 / 100
(Active): Ryze becomes supercharged, gaining spell vamp and causing his spells to deal 50% AoE damage.

Spell Vamp: 25%

Cooldown: 100 / 90 / 80 seconds

AoE radius: 200 / 250 / 300

Cost: 80 / 100 / 120 Mana

Duration: 8 / 9 / 10 seconds



Actually, I wouldn't say that Ryze needs a drastical change to be viable. He is viable. The only bad thing about him is, his R and his E, which are only there to lower cd, while there is a W which has high damage + hard cc in once. Also one Riot Quote:

Quoted:
Statikk
He's really strong right now though his ultimate is currently very lackluster to use. I would like to see AP be an attractive stat on him again, but we have no immediate plans for Ryze.


This says, that they want to bring back some AP-ratios on him, to open more playstyles. I think, this is also fixed with that change.


My Second Rework, Xin Zhao:

Quoted:
I think you all agree that Xin Zhao's current problem is the totally overpowered earlygame with lvl 1-3 and then the totally underpowered mid-lategame. This is because he scales with nothing. This should be changed by bringing down his base dmg and increasing his scaling.

Three Talon Strike: Now deals bonus damage instead of total damage, 10/20/30/40/50(+0.7 per bonus AD)

Most champs, which have on-hit abilities, actually scale with bonus damage rather than total damage, why not Xin? This gives a good chance to balance the ability.

Audacious Charge: Range decreased to 500, now deals physical damage, 50/80/110/140/170(+0.8 per bonus AD)
This should take down a bit the utility of this ability which makes it OP, while giving it also a possibilty to scale. Some people say all champs need an AP ratio, I would say no, newer AD-Champs don't have any AP-Scaling. And Xin actually scales so badly, he can't have an AP-ratio. He needs the AD-scaling.

Crescent Sweep: now is increased by 10% of maximum HP rather than 15% of current HP, 100/150/200(+1.2 bonus AD)
This should change the feeling of his ultimate through the game. I think, everyone agree's, that a scaling with current health is most time ****. He needs more ways to scale better into lategame and this + the new AD ratio opens it to him. For that, again the base dmg was reduced, but it should deal way more dmg, the part, this ability was missing.


This should make Xin playable again, while taking some of his "OMG OP" site.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by caucheka » April 11, 2012 2:31am | Report
meh, ryze is fine as is.

also, give him a mana cost on his ult? when all you did was change the passive? dafuq

xins q doesnt scale off of bonus damage because its supposed to increase the damage of his auto attacks for the next 3 strikes. by making it scale 50% of his bonus ad, you're just taking out half of his bonus ad and lowering his base to 10/20/30/40/50. thats a ****ing enormous nerf.

i wouldnt say that audacious charge's utility is op at all, but it should be physical and scale as such.

and crescent sweep isnt a finisher, its an opener. its why he gains bonus resistances during. if you're going to change it to 10% total hp, might as well make it a 2 cast, the first to gain armor/mr and the second to activate the actual sweep.


this, along with your wuju shield idea, makes me feel like you have little idea what you're doing.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Slappiz » April 11, 2012 3:11am | Report
The old Ryze was more fun to play imo, crazy nuke. Bring him back!
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » April 11, 2012 4:27am | Report
Oh, yeah, i suck sometimes at math :P. I make it 1,5 bonus AD. And the lowering of the ratio with HP was also because of the new AD-ratio.

As for Ryze, the ulti not only got the mana costs and the mana passive, it also got increased spellvamp at early levels. And increased the AoE at later levels. And increased CD aswell. And increased the duration.

For the rest, it should categorize his 3 spells. 1 for single target damage, 1 for cc and 1 for AoE damage. And I think, this is done well.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by caucheka » April 11, 2012 5:07am | Report
ok. so perhaps i should look at ryzes current skill stats before commenting. even though its not official, your numbers will be displayed as rework.
lets say ryze has 5k mana (pretty reasonable. think my build goes to 6k but i digress.) considering that my build has an archangels and 2 roas, thats 355 ap.


Q:
current: Magic Damage: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+0.2 per ability power) (+7.5% of max mana)
rework: Magic Damage: 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 (+0.60 per ability power) (+6% of max mana)

140 + 71(.2*355) + 375(.075*5000) = 586 damage.
140 + 213(.6*355) + 300(.06*5000) = 653 damage.

thats extremely high. all you changed besides that was the mana cost, which doesnt affect end game at all when you have 5k+ mana.


W:
current: 60 / 95 / 130 / 165 / 200 (+0.6 per ability power) (+5% of max mana)
rework: 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 (+0.20 per ability power) (+2% of max mana)

200 + 213(.6*355) + 250(.05*5000) = 663
140 + 71(.2*355) + 100(.02*5000) = 311

you say you want to make e and r more than just spam for his passive, but then make his w do exactly that. if you had reduced the cooldown by half like damage, then this might be acceptable. but i sure as hell wouldn't accept it.


E:
current: 50 / 70 / 90 / 110 / 130 (+0.35 per ability power)
rework: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 (+0.30 per ability power) (+3% of max mana)

130 + 124.25(.35*355) = 154.25
110 + 106.5(.3*355) + 150(.03*5000) = 366.5

this is possibly the only one i agree with.


R:
well this is really.. different? you get 100 mana each time you cast a spell, with the bonus mana lost by not casting a spell every 4 seconds. its a neat idea, but 100 is really too high a number, either that or the max stacks is way too high.


ryze doesnt need any work right now, hes in a pretty good spot. but as stated, his ult is lackluster.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by caucheka » April 11, 2012 5:20am | Report
as for xin zhao, i think i need to clarify myself more.

lets say he has 100 bonus ad, at level 18.

current: 75 + 112 (base ad at level 18) + 100 = 287 damage, 3 hits
rework: 50 + 150(1.5*bonus ad) = 200 damage, 3 hits

that is pretty bad. considering the new one gets 3 ad for every 2 ad he builds, you would need 275ish bonus ad for it to deal the same damage as before. ****ing pitiful.


now, if you meant that it was 50 + base ad + 150% bonus ad, that would be pretty good.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Yukimaru » April 11, 2012 5:41am | Report
You sir, have absolutly no clue about balancing oo
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » April 11, 2012 6:11am | Report
Again reworked it from total into bonus damage:

Means:
current: 75+112+100 = 287 dmg
rework: 50+112(your basic attacks are still calculated into it because now it is bonus dmg)+150 = 312 dmg

See now?

Quoted:
now, if you meant that it was 50 + base ad + 150% bonus ad, that would be pretty good.


Yes


For Ryze, well, i could lower max stacks to 5, then it should be better. And btw: Who gets in a full game 2 RoA on Ryze?

For his W, it should now work ONLY FOR CC, not for DMG. The DMG part of it is now shifted into E. You should now choose between damage and cc, and not getting both at the same time. This is one of the parts why Ryze is considered OP.

I think the ratio's of Q should be lowered to 0.5, 5%.

140 + (0.5 * 355) + (0.05 * 5 000) = 567.5

What this math show to me after that is that Rabadon's Deathcap would be now totally viable again.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Nighthawk » April 11, 2012 6:16am | Report
Terrible reworks...

Ryze doesn't even need one, and your Xin basically does nothing...


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » April 11, 2012 6:47am | Report
Well, that is the gamble with xin, he either does nothing or is totally OP. By letting him scale better overall while nerfing his earlygame will first decrease the power of his OP lvl 2 ganks and allow him to be a lategame teamfight threat.

I think Xin is an assasin actually, and for that, his ulti is now better. While he maybe deals less dmg to hp-stackers, he deals more dmg to squishys.
But after doing some math, both his E ratio and R ratio are going up.


Yeah, Ryze doesn't need one, but his E and R are very lackluster, while he has a cc skill that deals waay to much dmg. Just shifting the dmg around and making his ult more usefull helps him, even if it lowers his damage a bit. Also it should allow multiple playstyles, with that new AP-ratios, we could see some more AP-based Ryze's again.
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