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Phantom Dancer (PD) vs. Infinity Edge (IE)

Creator: timesource1 February 7, 2012 4:23pm
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timesource1
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Phantom Dancer or Infinity Edge

Champion: Caitlyn

I need the math. I've been traipsing all over the web for the Math and unfortunately, I couldn't find the basic algebra i need to compute this.

Here's the deal: DPS first or Crit Chance/Damage?

Referring to an article: http://www.leagueofl...ead.php?t=34791
According to this article, getting IE is important because of the Critical Damage.

Concede.

But that's for Champions who do massive damage like Trynd or Yi.



Please tell me if i have to make this clear:

Caitlyn is DPS. Having DPS means having greater chances to have Critical Damage because of the nbr of times Cait can hit in a second.

For 300+ won games, i believed in the format of :
Doran's Blade >> BF Sword >> Phantom Dancer >> IE

Now before you go bash me, I'd like to explain why. Long ago, I wondered why I should start with IE first. IE provides Critical Damage but not Critical Chance. This means, her critical chance remains constant until she buys another item to increase her crit chance.

With Berserker's Graves, Cait can fire 3 shots in 1.5seconds.
Getting IE means getting the same amt of critical chance. Now ONLY if the critical chance comes, IE's 250% crit damage applies.

Now let's look at the usual build i use:
BF sword >> Phantom Dancer >> IE

Why?

1. Cait's Crit chance remains constant; therefore, get BF sword to increase her base damage.
2. Get PD next.
PD has 55 attack speed and 30 crit chance
Attack speed = more hits per second. More hits per second means more chances to crit per second.
Add it with BF sword, it's huge damage.
3. Get IE
Now that you have increased the hits per second and chances to crit per second, it's time to increase the damage ur criticals have.



The problem is i need the maths. I want to know which build does more damage in a second because as a hitter, that's what counts.

I tried starting with IE first. It's nice getting crits but it's not as useful as PD which allows me to do more hits per second = more chances to crit! It's also perfect for harassing.


So if you want to rate this, don't go: oh IE is better just because ranked games start with IE. Please no. I'd like to know which can do more damage in a second. Starting with PD or starting with IE??
Lugignaf
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I'd prefer BF sword->Zeal->IE->PD
Cait needs end game items fast. Her endgame is arguably worse than most other AD carries.
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Lugignaf wrote:

Cait needs end game items fast. Her endgame is arguably worse than most other AD carries.


Not really.

Her 6 items is one of the strongest. It's just her 3, 4, and 5 items is one of the weakest.
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True she needs end game items really fast. But i don't say her endgame is worse than other carries. I believe that properly using her skills along with her DPS allows her to be better than other AD carries. The best part is, while channeling Ace in a Hole, she can continue attacking.

I'll try ur build:

BF >> Zeal >> IE >> PD

It's just that I find the movement speed for PD extremely useful. Positioning for a carry is very important and PD's movement speed also helps. PD not only allows me to increase her hits per second, it also increases the chances to crit per hit per second (did that make sense?) plus gives me movement speed to position myself in the best possible places during clashes.

But then again that's me. I'll try ur build the next time i play.
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Personally I dig the zeal before the BF :P
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This thing about that is, even though you're getting Headshot more often, it's not going to do any real good damage. :/
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timesource1
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Lugignaf wrote:

This thing about that is, even though you're getting Headshot more often, it's not going to do any real good damage. :/



What? Lol it DOES. It's my happiest moment when i see Cait shining like fireworks. It's one of my ultimate harassing tools. aw dang this sucks. I guess it's hard to do the maths... maybe i should find a way to ask someone from 2000 ELO XD whahaha.
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Well, I can easily drop the math for AA DPS and full ability rotation DPS, but I assume you want the first one, so...

Modeling Cait's AA DPS pre-mitigation is fairly easy (pre-mitigation DPS is workable for this model because neither of our options includes ArPen), it's just AD * AS * (1 + (1 + bonus crit damage) * crit chance) * (1 + (1 / headshot number) * .5). So going with just Berserker's Greaves and comparing the two items above (without considering masteries or runes) at around level 9, we'll get the following:

Greaves + PD = (74) * (1.38) * (1 + .3) * 7.5/7 =~ 142.24
Greaves + IE = (154) * (1.015) * (1 + 1.5 * .25) * 7.5/7 =~ 219.81

Now this is just an average, since we're dealing with crits here and attacking in the brush will up the Headshot damage, but... Infinity Edge clearly does a lot more damage, and is going to also have the benefit of increasing your Q and ult damage.

EDIT: Was calculating headshot bonus damage wrong, corrected numbers.
EDIT 2: Am fail on calculating Cait's level 9 AS.
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timesource1
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True but count the damage per second. So if you're saying that

Greaves + PD = 160.79 damage and Greaves + IE = 271.12 I got one question, does that mean the IE is GUARANTEED to have approximately 271.12 damage per hit?? Coz i can see in ur computation that you did include crit chance in ur formula.

Now damage output wise per ONE HIT, IE wins. But put it this way. Cait is DPS.

Greaves + PD = apprx 4.5 shots in 2 seconds (based on experience) = 778.12
Greaves + IE = apprx 2.5 shots in 2 seconds (uh 0.5 is like half of my shot goes to the 3rd second) = approximately 677.00

am i wrong???
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... I dunno why ppl wreck the brains and ALWAYS try to add fu**ing inconvenient math calcs into this...?

Without including any special occasion/scenario:

I.E. > P.D.


Why?
Well, for one thing you aren't Tryn, so you want your skills to do some dmg too, right?

For another, you cant compare those two like you guys did. One costs a hefty chunk of 1k g more while the other adds non-comparable MS to the mix.

@timesource1
Yeah, you're wrong somewhere.
I dunno what you missed to write down/think of, that you only need to add 55% AS to gain 2 more attacks in 2 secs, that would mean Cait had a base AS of ~2.00.
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