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SHEN TOP TP/SMITE

Creator: Troy Sin August 3, 2015 10:52am
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Troy Sin
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Am I the only one using smite/tp on shen top?

I only do it in some matchups and if my team has good engage, and my primary job is to peel.
I mostly do it vs tanks like malph, nasus but it works quite well against ap champs like vlad or ryze aswell. It does take some time to scale, more time when i use full HP% runes. But there are lots of pros imo.
terrorearl
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You are building into cinderhulk? Thats pretty late to do so, that item got nerfed a lot... Imo now its much better to take flash/ignite ;) but your preferences :P
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Yeah cinderhulk is nerfed but its still decently strong, atleast the challenging smite, vs tanky toplaners does good work. also i like not building sunfire cape since it falls off pretty hard. which cinderhulk doesnt. i dont nececarilly rush cinderhulk, only if im ahead or got the money. Also im using HP% runes, so i get like 37% bonus HP with masteries and cinder. meaning i get like 1200 hp when buying warmogs :D My buy being Cinder-warmogs-spirit visage-thornmail- mercs or tabi, optional last item from randuims to triforce/black cleaver
Troy Sin
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And Shen obviously scales rly well with HP, his passive doing massive dmg in late game like 400 or so. having around 4-5 k hp is so nice :D
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If you can pull it off go ahead, just keep in mind you're sacrificing Flash for Smite, meaning your only other escape mechanism Shadow Dash is the only thing that can save you in a gank and it is very expensive (100 Energy), very unreliable and on a very long cooldown.

HP % Runes are only worth it (if I'm not mistaken) after you have build around ~4500 HP and I don't think Shen ever gets this far. Scaling HP is better.

Black Cleaver on Shen is actually bad. You don't have an effective way of stacking it's passive, since your abilities deal magic damage.

Sunfire Aegis stacks with Enchantment: Cinderhulk (if I am not mistaken) and Shen lacks waveclear, so I think it is a necessary item. It is very good in the early-mid game and you are able to take full advantge off of it, so I think there's no reason not to build it.
Troy Sin
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Ty for the comment Re4XN!

First, Sunfire does not stack with Cinderhulk, "Immolate", its the same name atleast.

Second, Flash or Smite:
I really think Shen is OP atm. and as long as you are playing safe till lvl 12 or so you should be fine with no flash. Yes not having Flash is riscy, my answer to this is, "never" use (E) Offensively in the early game. Taking a camp at lvl 1 also makes ur opponent push in early so the wave should push towards you. Also tell your jungler to mostly ignore top lane, you will not have much kill potential. But if u can burn a flash or so its nice with an early gank.

Having Smite also gives u allot of lvl 1 options:
1. Taking a camp, Krugs on red side or Gromp on blue. The gromp smite buff is really nice!
2. I simply smite a gromp and go to lane lvl 1, possibly taking (E) to get over wall and dodge gromp dmg and taking a lvl 1 trade top.
3. Help ur jungler! Tell him to start top side and let him smite first on Krugs or Gromp.
4. If u are on Red side u can actually do this; You help on Krugs ( 1 (Q) on each Krug+ taking a few hits), not smiting, then go to red buff and start it when ur jungler is almost there!
take about 3 hits then smite moving towards lane. This ofcourse will set you behind, but gives your jungler a nice advantage and the team, botlane can take gromp lvl 1 and if its an early game jungler who doesnt need blue badly and has a nice early gank.

Yes there are so many variables! but i see much advantage from Smite on Shen. The only really bad thing imo. is ofcourse not having Flash! And this is why i dont spam the Smite/TP. Those Taunt-Flash moves are amazingly effective. And not having Flash will kill u atleast once per game, mostly early tho. This is a good reason for not using smite but also the "only" disadvantage! ? I mean Flash is really nice, but as long as your team has some good engage, speedbuffs etc. And your role is to peel and counterengage with ulti Smite its really strong.


Smite advantages in order:

1. Stacking HP makes Cinderhulk very effecient. and thereby scale better.
2. You can do quite high burst dmg with Challenging Smite and a full combo.
3. An early Thornmail and you can easily duel ADC and AD champs.
4. The different monster buffs makes you more effective in different roles:
Krugs for tower dmg, Gromp for dmg and is scaling with your max HP, Raptors and Wolfs for vision.
5. Split pushing becomes very effecient with Triforce and 4-5 items.
6. Early farm in lane

In the early lvls Smite is quite nice just to farm, also Smite procs Shen's (Q) passive so u get the bonus regen.

Third, No Sunfire?

Yes u do need waveclear on shen, smite helps with that too tho, smiting cannon minions is quite effective in regards to wavecontrol. Also I will ussually buy Phage quite early for some additional waveclear.
You can actually buy Rangers Trailblazer if u are against an AP champ, Rushing Spectres cowl and then Trailblazer!
Changing it to Skirmishers is not that expensive and then you just delay Bamis cinder untill u want Cinderhulk. In this case i would not run HP% runes.

Fourth, HP% Runes?

My reasons for using HP% runes are mostly the scaling part, I will be stacking HP items, mostly i will just get thornmail for armor (or Randuims), Spirit visage for MR and then Warmogs+ another hp item.
In comparison with HP pr. lvl runes where you get 362 HP at lvl 18 (Quints+Marks).
You will get 9% of your max HP from HP% runes.
So max HP% runes are better when u get about 3800 hp. Which u can get quite early with cinderhulk!
HP% runes are very optional i use them more and more often tho, but plenty different rune sets can be applied with Smite/TP. Such as Armor, HP pr. lvl, HP regen, CDR, attack speed and damage.


Fifth, Black cleaver on Shen?


Buying Black cleaver can be nice imo, only in some circumstances tho;

Importance in this order.

1. Having bought Phage early in the game and Triforce doesnt seem worth.
2. You are peeling tanks off youre carries. (Heca-Maokai-Malph-Nasus)
3. You want to buy BOTRK or Wit's end as 5th or last item. (Some AS to proc Black cleaver)
4. You want CDR to spam ulti and (E) in teamfights.

More comments;
The recent buffs on Shen has made E alot better, also getting a Kindlegem quite early helps + I have 10% CDR from runes and masteries.
I ussually dont rush lvl 5 (Q). taking like lvl 2 in (W) and maybe (E) makes his trading and laning safer/better in some matchups.

It got pretty comprehensive but please comment :)
NicknameMy
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The problem is, against any good opponents, you need the Flash Shadow Dash combo to taunt targets. It is as vital on him as on Galio.
Troy Sin
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Yeah people can dodge taunt quite easily, but with smite you are not that depended on landing those taunts, atleast not late game.
Troy Sin
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And having much CDR can throw ppl off, having like 7 sec cd on (E) is pretty low.
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I would go against the idea smite tp for basicly two reason.
1) The reason of nicknamemy said and other, you dont have flash. Yes, you wouldse your e as an escape mechanism but flash helps with those, well "LC$ Big Plays". Using an ult into a teamfight into a flash E, especially if you have a huge follow up like a Leo/Amumu combo, its devastating.

2)The cinderhulk nerf. I.E. im just restating everything everyone said before me. Cinder got nerf along with challenging smite as well (or skirmish s saber if you will). I dont really see a reason for chilling/stalkers blade on shen but it could be used as a pseudo BotRK.

On the topic of your build, I would suggest getting Tri second item since its a HUGE powerspike to your dueling potential. Usually you would build Randiuns/Sunfire or Spirit visage depending on your laner. Get a tri then just itemize to their team. Do they have a Fiora top, yasuo mid, and a kali bot? It might be safe for your health to grab a thornmail. Hard hitting single nukes like nid jg lb mid and annie sup? Banshees And/Or locket if your support isnt building one. Tri should be your only offensive item. Period. You need the tank late and tri enhances your dueling so much, but you shouldnt get caught 1v1ing that fed Ahri.

All in all tp/smite isnt necessarily a bad idea, but its just out classed by flash/tp

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