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League of Legends (LoL) Question: Flat HP and attack spped marks on Ashe?

Posted in Runes | Tags: Ashe 4,119

  • jokersprank

    Flat HP and attack spped marks on Ashe?

    Hey I just saw Phreaks recommendations for runes. He said attack speed quints, attack speed marks, attack speed glyph and flat HP seals are the best on her statistically. Assuming that the enemy isn't really troublesome like Zyra, do you think the set-up works in some cases? 34% attack speed sounds really interesting but I haven't had the time to play test. And is flat HP really an alternative to armor?
  • Answers (3)

    Vapora Dark (624) | December 11, 2016 5:19am
    Well I assume he means it statistically gives you the most DPS, but calling them statistically the best runes on her is just wrong. AS marks over AD marks gives you poor af trading in lane, AS glyphs over MR glyphs is ok but you'll get raped by magic damage all game (it's better to use a mix than full AS, or just stick to the traditional 9 MR), and HP seals aren't better than armor seals unless you're just fighting to the death at lvl 1 as soon as you get into lane, since armor seals increase the effectiveness of lifesteal, HP regen and potions.

    Edit: I just watched the video and I recommend completely disregarding it, he's basing his arguments on win rates when the win rates have such tiny sample sizes that they're just not accurate. The best runes are the most used ones so tend to have the most accurate win rates (which trends to as close to 50% as possible), while worse runes are least popular so tend to have more extreme win rates, so they commonly have win rates like 55+%, even higher than 60% sometimes, so he argues that makes them "statistically better" than the meta even though you can't take **** from such a small sample size.

    He even ***** on his own argument when he says AS marks are statistically better than AD marks on Lucian and Ezreal, but they "feel weird" so he rules them out as "statistical noise", so he overrides the statistics and recommends AD marks.

    He fails to realize that basically every single one of his "statistically better" runes is just "statistical noise". I've experimented with his recommended full AS marks for Tristana in the past, and I quickly ruled them out because playing with no AD was awful. Yes they give more DPS mid-late game, but it wasn't worth the weaker early-game. Many pros have experimented with the same setup years ago and long established that AD marks were better. Phreak is the only special butterfly that wants to blindly take statistics for their word and insists everyone else is wrong for not following them.

    If you do care about statistics anyway, use this site as a reference.

    Check the runes tab: "Statistical noise" still applies, but it only shows rune pages that have a certain minimum games played, so the results are a lot less extreme than if you're trying to take the statistics of a rune page that uses flat HP (which no one uses so the result of that is gonna be inaccurate as ****).
    LuxTheGreyWarden (64) | November 28, 2016 9:09am
    Yeah, I watched Freak's videos as well and I think those are just the ones that WON statistically, but it also depends on the lane. It's always a good idea to take magic resist against a lane with Sona/Zyra/Brand/Nami because they're the ones dishing out the damage. He said flat health is better on some ADC's who don't have an early game, but I like the scaling health overall. The idea of health over armor is to save you from the mid laner who can easily burst you down, but you shouldn't normally see the mid laner until after 6 anyways. I think the only reason he said flat health was to get you through that early game if they do have that Caitlyn/ Sona poke, but I prefer scaling health (like he said, both work and it's up to you as a player to decide).

    Besides that, most of what Ekki said about the attack speed runes is pretty accurate! The only thing I don't agree on is the idea that more than 4-5 attack speed glyphs is overkill. Ashe can, for one, use her attack speed to kite better with a mix of her Frost Shot and Ranger's Focus. Also realize that (I don't play Ashe often so I don't know a SPECIFIC build for her) most Ashe's will get items like Infinity Edge, Bloodthirster, Essence Reaver, Maw of Malmortius, Mercurial Scimitar, etc. These are all item that give attack damage and not attack speed. I normally only see Runaan's Hurricane and Berserker's Greaves. Furthering your attack speed with runes and then getting tons of AD items in game works efficiently. Just make sure there's a little bit of a balance, like Ekki said. Runes are all about the type of player as well, so yours will definitely be different than mine or others and they all normally work out just fine!
    Ekki (86) | November 28, 2016 8:49am
    Is that from a new video/article? Or an old one? Always check the date when using those resources. Ashe was strong during the first half of the year iirc, but got nerfed pretty hard and is kinda weak now.

    Back on OT. Flat HP is an alternative because it also protects against magic damage (since you're not using MR glyphs). Flat HP seals suck though, they're too expensive and only worth it before level 6. After level 6 the scaling HP runes give better stats.

    Attack speed glyphs seem to be decent, but not getting any MR via runes seems way too risky. I've used the 3 attsp glyphs + 6 mr glyphs setup for most of my adc pages, but going for more than 4-5 attsp glyphs seems like overkill in an inmobile adc like Ashe.

    Lastly, lots of attack speed might be somewhat optimal on her because of the on-hit multiplier from Ranger's Focus, but it's CRITICAL that you take in account the most optimal build too. Going full attsp runes and starting with a first item Runaan's Hurricane probably won't be optimal. You should probably aim for a Infinity Edge first item. Another factor is that you should be careful to not go over the attack speed cap, otherwise you would be wasting stats because of a controversial rune setup.
    jokersprank (33) | November 28, 2016 1:34pm
    Thanks for the insight from you both! I agree that running a rune page without magic resist is really risky nowadays. I just readjust the amount of magic resist and attack speed glyphs every season (last season 6 attack speed glyphs).
    As for Hexdrinker, I don't really like Hexdrinker on ADCS in general as it does provide a small shield and most of the time you have fewer levels than the mid laner, so even less. I think Bloodthirster passive is the best choice or Mercurial Scimitar.
    LuxTheGreyWarden (64) | November 28, 2016 11:38am
    I'd also like to add that attack speed glyphs could work in situations like you versus Caitlyn/ Janna lane because Caitlyn will be doing all of the damage. The scary part is that if you get behind, you won't have enough gold to buy that Hexdrinker in time for teamfights and that could cost you. It all comes down to what YOU want and how you play Ashe :) hope we helped at all (I main mid so I'm analyzing this from a mid laners perspective, not an ADC's).
    Ekki (86) | November 28, 2016 10:53am
    Health is useful since it also increases effective health from any armor/mr (hence Graves builds HP to multiply his Quickdraw bonus). HP might be better if you don't get MR from glyphs and are afraid of dying before level 6, but IMO Ashe is too immobile to take the liberty of not running MR glyphs, so unless you have great map awareness, I would stay away from that rune page.

    Also, if what LuxTheGreyWarden said is true, this was just a high win % rune page. Those stats are skewed in favour of whatever the players with the highest win % build, which doesn't always align with the actual "most optimal" rune page being used.
    jokersprank (33) | November 28, 2016 9:04am
    He just released it. I was just interested since ADCs usually don't get health but there is also effective health. I just want to try alternatives as pros also don't know everything. Currently, only one seems interesting but is mastery depending.
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