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Starting with a Jungle Invade

Creator: VexRoth March 31, 2015 8:38am
VexRoth
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What constitutes a victory as far as starting with a jungle invade?

I've seen them pay off if you get at least two kills, but even that isn't a guarantee.

Often times all that happens is that you trade buffs. E.g. You get their Blue and they get your Blue and usually your laners get to lane late and are hence behind in CS to start off laning phase, because their laners know they can just go to lane because there are 3 or more of you at their buff.

So I am curious as to what others are trying to achieve and perhaps gain some insights into making them more profitable when you do go for them.
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In my experience it either results in a summoner or two blown, a kill or absolutely nothing happens and both teams return to their position.
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Your laners can actually get to lame in time without missing CS. I'm guessing your laners are just dumb haha. Some benefits of invading is that it puts pressure on your opponents jungler and makes tier jungling behavior more predictable. For instance, is you're blue side and you invade your opponents blue buff, and they respond by taking your blue buff, you know that they'll be spending a majority of their time jungling in the top half of the map, whereas you'll be spending most of the time jungling in the bottom lane. As a result, this puts more pressure on your opponents bot lane, and your own top lane, since the jungles will be near those lanes more often
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What constitutes a successful jungle invade?
  • First blood
  • Summoner spell advantage
  • Denying a useful buff (taking blue from Fiddlesticks)
  • Denying 2 camps (red + wraiths or blue + wolves) without being spotted. This makes the enemy jungler actually fall a little bit behind in XP and you can still probably get all 3 buffs.

I don't think invading is really worth it unless you can get away with a buff steal undetected or get first blood. If your team has a markedly stronger level 1 or you are just more coordinated, you can force a "buff trade" and then send your laners to stop the enemy jungler so that he falls way behind and doesn't take your buff.

Most invades I see are just for summoner advantage or first blood though. FB is 400g which is a pretty big lead for one person on your team. You can try for some sneaky buff steals though since not many people ward properly at level one.
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When you Flash over a wall and bait your whole team to do the same just so you can miss Rocket Grab as Blitzcrank.


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Psi's answer is probably slightly more in-depth and accurate tho. I could agree with it.

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Joxuu wrote:
When you Flash over a wall and bait your whole team to do the same just so you can miss Rocket Grab as Blitzcrank.


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Psi's answer is probably slightly more in-depth and accurate tho. I could agree with it.


Thank you for that Joxuu. That made me laugh. :D
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PsiGuard wrote:
What constitutes a successful jungle invade?


I don't think invading is really worth it unless you can get away with a buff steal undetected or get first blood.


That fits in with the way I was measuring the worth of it.

PsiGuard wrote:

If your team has a markedly stronger level 1 or you are just more coordinated, you can force a "buff trade" and then send your laners to stop the enemy jungler so that he falls way behind and doesn't take your buff.


Thoughts on coordinating this in soloqueue? Or would you not bother trying? Force them off buff, then take it and then send top or bot to the corresponding buff. How do your laners not get behind in that situation?
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Joxuu wrote:
When you Flash over a wall and bait your whole team to do the same just so you can miss Rocket Grab as Blitzcrank.


|


Psi's answer is probably slightly more in-depth and accurate tho. I could agree with it.
Lol, you would never do that, right? Right?

Saving grace: it was a ledge.

In soloqueue, on my level, I find that it either happens or it doesn't. By which I mean that if you ping in their jungle when the game starts, and everyone immediately agrees and goes there, it happens, and if not, it'll fail. Don't try to convince them more than that, or you'll get half-***ed invades which can only lead to a disadvantage. You absolutely need to all be there in time.

I risk it when I know that my team has a significant CC advantage at level 1 and if everyone's up for it.
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PsiGuard wrote:

If your team has a markedly stronger level 1 or you are just more coordinated, you can force a "buff trade" and then send your laners to stop the enemy jungler so that he falls way behind and doesn't take your buff.

VexRoth wrote:
Thoughts on coordinating this in soloqueue? Or would you not bother trying? Force them off buff, then take it and then send top or bot to the corresponding buff. How do your laners not get behind in that situation?

I'm a very farm-focused jungler and I try to use my time as efficiently as possible. This means I don't make many high-risk high-reward plays, which are usually attributed to counter-jungling. I try to farm and get vision control and gank when I see a good opportunity for success, only counter-jungling when I know I have a huge early game advantage and/or I have enough information to be satisfied that my invade turn out the way I want it to.

Not everyone plays like this and sometimes my playstyle makes it difficult to carry games -- particularly ones where my team falls behind early. If you like to take more risks, you'll need a lot of practice to figure out which situations are most likely to be worth taking the risk of invading.

If you want to invade level one, let your team know your plan as you walk out of base. If your laners don't want to help stop the enemy jungler from taking your other buff, then worst case scenario should hopefully be a buff trade. Your laners shouldn't fall behind unless the jungler has no support from their own laners in their invade, in which case the jungler will be set massively behind and possibly give first blood. Both cases are good in the long run for your laners even if they're a bit behind in XP early game.

That said, if you don't trust your teammates in silver to be able to handle that stuff, just work on your sneaky lvl 1 buff steals, lvl 2 invades and invades later into the game. Or just play like me and don't invade unless it's guaranteed to be the best use of your time.

Hope that answers your question.
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