Rengar Nerfs

[quote=jomarix][[Empowered Savagery]] 150% Damage to 130% Damage [[Bola Strike]] now has cast time while airborne As a [[rengar]] main, this hurts me. But still, what do you guys think?[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod]Necessary: [[rengar]] currently has nearly no counterplay if he gets ahead early.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=FalseoGod]Necessary: [[rengar]] currently has nearly no counterplay if he gets ahead early.[/quote] [b]That[/b] is the counterplay though; he's very weak early, which people can and should abuse.[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod][quote=GrandmasterD][quote=FalseoGod]Necessary: [[rengar]] currently has nearly no counterplay if he gets ahead early.[/quote] [b]That[/b] is the counterplay though; he's very weak early, which people can and should abuse.[/quote] The issue is that [[vision ward]] is an item that becomes less and less bought as the game progresses and [[rengar]] can start getting easy picks midgame, snowballing even when he was behind, and thus reaching his unbearable state mid-late. Of course there's counterplay to him: he has a harder time in teamfights because his only way to be useful is blowing up a carry (ap carries have zhonya's to prevent this, adcs can get GA or, depending on the support, can be saved without it). All in all, the problem with [[rengar]] was, is and will be the nature of his kit and how it interacts with other matters, namely vision[/quote]

[quote=Re4XN]The only way to deal with a fed Rengar later on in the game is to walk as a group and FUCK him up as soon as he jumps on someone. Of course, this relies on an element of your team to have hard CC (stun, root, something like that) and the rest to follow up. If he is the only one with kills on his team, it's hard for him to do something if he can't pick people off.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=FalseoGod][quote=GrandmasterD][quote=FalseoGod]Necessary: [[rengar]] currently has nearly no counterplay if he gets ahead early.[/quote] [b]That[/b] is the counterplay though; he's very weak early, which people can and should abuse.[/quote] The issue is that [[vision ward]] is an item that becomes less and less bought as the game progresses and [[rengar]] can start getting easy picks midgame, snowballing even when he was behind, and thus reaching his unbearable state mid-late. Of course there's counterplay to him: he has a harder time in teamfights because his only way to be useful is blowing up a carry (ap carries have zhonya's to prevent this, adcs can get GA or, depending on the support, can be saved without it). All in all, the problem with [[rengar]] was, is and will be the nature of his kit and how it interacts with other matters, namely vision[/quote] All true, but I think [[Rengar]] in general isn't broken or OP; just very hit-or-miss.[/quote]

[quote=SpawnOfHell]I don't have a PBE account so I need these changes to go live before I can give my full thoughts on the [[bola strike]] nerf, will get back to this. Initial thoughts: the [[savagery]] nerf isn't that bad and the [[bola strike]] nerf was necessary. Leap into [[empowered bola strike]] is instant death and has no counterplay other than QSS (which may not even save you from dying)[/quote]

[quote=VexRoth][quote=GrandmasterD] All true, but I think [[Rengar]] in general isn't broken or OP; just very hit-or-miss.[/quote] XD If you look at my recent match history in my ranked thread, you'll see two [[Rengar]] games back to back that show exactly this. Their Rengar crushed us. In the following game our Rengar ended up being mostly useless. As for being weak early. He is sort of. He is actually not half bad as an invader assuming he has five ferocity stacks. He is a little like [[Lee Sin]] in that his bush leap can often let him get to you even if you would otherwise have gotten away. One of my favorite games was was when we had a relatively good [[Shaco]] vs [[Rengar]]. The Rengar didn't get to play League that game. It was kind of satisfying to be able to think oh, Rengar jumped on me, I'll kite back and kill him. As opposed to the game where the Rengar could delete my carry before my [[Monsoon]] could push him away.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]pretty sure the champ is gonna be garbage now, hitting e while airborne was his bread and butter[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod][quote=H4xDefender]pretty sure the champ is gonna be garbage now, hitting e while airborne was his bread and butter[/quote] True. Like I said, the issue is basically his kit, if you move too much he'll either end up OP or UP[/quote]