Quoted:
It is very likely that this will result in the only viable teamcomps including champions that are strong 2v2 (botlane) and 1v1 (toplane) because laneswapping right now does not look like an option.
AND THAT'S WAY MORE FUN TO WATCH.
God bless.
Vynertje wrote:
I think well executed laneswaps are very fun to watch as long as there's a certain amount of counterplay, tradeoffs etc involved. At least much more interesting than a game that's decided by who gets the best matchup in P/B.
I'm much more interested in mechanical outplays than rotational outplays, and I think I'm in the majority. Overall less lane swaps would be beneficial for viewers.
Games being decided by who gets the best matchup in P/B is as general a statement as games being decided by who gets the best team comp in a lane swap. I don't think it's as clear cut as that.
Laneswapping allows champion flexibility in a sense that you don't have to pick something with a good laning phase. If laneswaps weren't a thing, I bet you'd only see a very small group of ADC's and top laners being played because weak laners would get snowballed and lose the game automatically. We already see it happening if a team in LCS manages to correctly predict a laneswap and manages to get the 2v2/1v1 lanes: it can snowball the entire game. Laneswaps solve this, but there must be a tradeoff. That tradeoff is currently non-existent, which is why so many teams laneswap. Furthermore, the laneswap 'meta' itself is very stale and that is what makes games boring currently.
In general, I doubt games will suddenly become more interesting if you eliminate laneswaps, which is what I think this patch will do. The game is interesting for everyone when there is a healthy balance between the two different styles: standard lanes and laneswaps.
First, laneswaps will probably be eliminated because:
1. The team that remains on bot side gets a huge tempo advantage and will get tower much faster, due to the fortification being removed and siege creeps spawning faster. This feeds farm into the top laner that can freeze the wave a bit longer, which snowballs top lane.
2. There is another large chunk of local gold being fed into the team that gets the tower first, which will always be the team staying bot side.
What I think this will cause:
1. Top and bottom lane will be much more focussed on getting early game strong picks, limiting the amount of champion depth possible (late game picks will be obliterated); this is something that has been pointed out by e.g. MonteChristo some time ago.
2. Because of these early game strong picks, games will likely be more snowball-y
3. This can in turn lead to teams playing more passively, as taking a risk may have severe consequences. Back in the beginning of the season when one ace in 30 minutes would result in the end of the game, games were very passive because teams were too afraid to take risks.
4. There will be a greater emphasis on counterpicks as there is no way to dodge bad matchups
What can be gained from allowing laneswaps, but having a meaningful tradeoff:
1. Strategic diversity, both in champion select and in-game. It allows for lots of interesting adaptations in terms of rotations, prioritisation etc.
2. A best of both worlds approach. You will likely see more skill matchups as you don't want to dodge an even matchup if there's a cost involved, but also opportunities to develop strategies for laneswaps that deviate from the current meta
3. the ability for teams to create their own unique playstyle
I think having laneswaps in the game is essential for competitive LoL to be interesting, but they should be balanced. Riot is trying to balance them right now and as they said, they're not out to destroy it altogether. However, I think they're going too far by giving at least 3 advantages to the team not laneswapping.
In general, I doubt games will suddenly become more interesting if you eliminate laneswaps, which is what I think this patch will do. The game is interesting for everyone when there is a healthy balance between the two different styles: standard lanes and laneswaps.
First, laneswaps will probably be eliminated because:
1. The team that remains on bot side gets a huge tempo advantage and will get tower much faster, due to the fortification being removed and siege creeps spawning faster. This feeds farm into the top laner that can freeze the wave a bit longer, which snowballs top lane.
2. There is another large chunk of local gold being fed into the team that gets the tower first, which will always be the team staying bot side.
What I think this will cause:
1. Top and bottom lane will be much more focussed on getting early game strong picks, limiting the amount of champion depth possible (late game picks will be obliterated); this is something that has been pointed out by e.g. MonteChristo some time ago.
2. Because of these early game strong picks, games will likely be more snowball-y
3. This can in turn lead to teams playing more passively, as taking a risk may have severe consequences. Back in the beginning of the season when one ace in 30 minutes would result in the end of the game, games were very passive because teams were too afraid to take risks.
4. There will be a greater emphasis on counterpicks as there is no way to dodge bad matchups
What can be gained from allowing laneswaps, but having a meaningful tradeoff:
1. Strategic diversity, both in champion select and in-game. It allows for lots of interesting adaptations in terms of rotations, prioritisation etc.
2. A best of both worlds approach. You will likely see more skill matchups as you don't want to dodge an even matchup if there's a cost involved, but also opportunities to develop strategies for laneswaps that deviate from the current meta
3. the ability for teams to create their own unique playstyle
I think having laneswaps in the game is essential for competitive LoL to be interesting, but they should be balanced. Riot is trying to balance them right now and as they said, they're not out to destroy it altogether. However, I think they're going too far by giving at least 3 advantages to the team not laneswapping.
The only time I laneswapped was in a ranked where I went Urgot and a friend went Soraka. We told our top laner to go bot and proceeded to annihilate the enemy Vayne (who was Top). We won. Barely...
Honestly, I don't know what to feel about this 'Turret First Blood' thing. To me, certain champions who excel at pushing will get their team a lead that feels a bit unfair (think Ziggs, with whom I can push turrets before 20 minutes hit).
I'm also really curious regarding the AI change for turrets and how will this impact the rework Rito is planning for 'Diver'-class champions.
Urgot and a friend went Soraka. We told our top laner to go bot and proceeded to annihilate the enemy Vayne (who was Top). We won. Barely...Honestly, I don't know what to feel about this 'Turret First Blood' thing. To me, certain champions who excel at pushing will get their team a lead that feels a bit unfair (think
Ziggs, with whom I can push turrets before 20 minutes hit).I'm also really curious regarding the AI change for turrets and how will this impact the rework Rito is planning for 'Diver'-class champions.
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Some interesting tweets from League prominents:
Jarge (FNC Analist):
"Forcing competitive to be more like soloQ will hurt teamwork teams like CLG and incentivise teams to just get high-mechanics-only players."
"Removing it (laneswaps) will reduce flexibility in top+bot."
Brokenshard (former pro, coach and analist):
"And if you make lane swapping irrelevant, the same can be said about the inverse [by the inverse he means champions not being picked because they can be laneswapped against]. If you make the game all about laning, you'll get mad strong laners and early game comps and thats it
Jarge (FNC Analist):
"Forcing competitive to be more like soloQ will hurt teamwork teams like CLG and incentivise teams to just get high-mechanics-only players."
"Removing it (laneswaps) will reduce flexibility in top+bot."
Brokenshard (former pro, coach and analist):
"And if you make lane swapping irrelevant, the same can be said about the inverse [by the inverse he means champions not being picked because they can be laneswapped against]. If you make the game all about laning, you'll get mad strong laners and early game comps and thats it
Besides the impact of these changes on the game, you have to take into account the fan service. Just like most people who watch ordinary sports are mainly interested in miracle goals and slam dunks, the majority of those following competetive LoL play will want to see multi-kills, jukes, perfectly aimed skillshots etc. Obviously, that's what riot is going to offer. I can see why someone with your knowledge on the game, might not agree with those changes, though. But it happens to be that not everyone who is gonna watch the Worlds can or is interested in deeper analysis of the games.
Changes seem pretty ham-handed. I don't really like when they make the map more asymmetrical just to try and force players to play a certain way. I would rather make dragon easier to take early to give an advantage to teams who keep their duo lane in the bottom side instead of these invisible turret numbers changes.
No casual player is going to know that bottom outer turrets are different than all the others without looking this stuff up, which is bad game design. There should be a more elegant solution to make lane swaps more risky without just killing them off altogether.
Also in terms of champion diversity, all-laneswaps and all-standard are both bad. If laneswaps are super common and basically risk-free, it cuts out a lot of strong early game sidelaners out of the meta. Nobody is going to play Renekton just to jungle and catch waves for 15 minutes. At the same time, forcing standard 2v2 and 1v1 lanes leaves no options for teams that want to pick weaker sidelaners.
I'm hoping lane swaps become a little more rare and situational, but still viable given the comp. Just like some teams might give up the first couple dragons to wait for power spikes, so some teams should opt into lane swaps and give up advantages early for the sake of free farm on their side laners.
No casual player is going to know that bottom outer turrets are different than all the others without looking this stuff up, which is bad game design. There should be a more elegant solution to make lane swaps more risky without just killing them off altogether.
Also in terms of champion diversity, all-laneswaps and all-standard are both bad. If laneswaps are super common and basically risk-free, it cuts out a lot of strong early game sidelaners out of the meta. Nobody is going to play
Renekton just to jungle and catch waves for 15 minutes. At the same time, forcing standard 2v2 and 1v1 lanes leaves no options for teams that want to pick weaker sidelaners.I'm hoping lane swaps become a little more rare and situational, but still viable given the comp. Just like some teams might give up the first couple dragons to wait for power spikes, so some teams should opt into lane swaps and give up advantages early for the sake of free farm on their side laners.
Thanks to Lugignaf for the sig!
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I think this is going to give teams initiating a laneswap a massive disadvantage. While in general I think it is good to give teams initiating a laneswap a small disadvantage (so there is a meaningful tradeoff to avoid bad matchups), this may be taking it a bit too far. It is very likely that this will result in the only viable teamcomps including champions that are strong 2v2 (botlane) and 1v1 (toplane) because laneswapping right now does not look like an option. The team on botside will get the tower much faster and get the bonus gold, which will snowball into a massive lead for the top laner (who, in the current laneswap meta, gets to freeze the wave until the enemy has taken the tower).
Thoughts on these changes?