7.4 Tier List + AMA

[quote=RottedApples]his poke is easy to understand, yes there are some ways to reduce the amount of counter play and optimize it but it's very easy and a fair part of his kit. I think the knowing when to all in and doing the optimal combo's to all in is the hard part. (activating the attack speed thing then going in, or stacking both the cannon and hammer transform passives in the same auto.) also he can insec with his hammer knockback thing.[/quote]

[quote=Elusive Ferret]He has a pretty high skill ceiling, which is why you tend to see both ends of the spectrum in people playing him.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender][quote=MissMaw]H4x do you still think MF is trash cuz I think her new build is kinda decent and lethality is supposed to get buffed next patch[/quote] i don't think shes very good as an ad carry, no. i think shes a pretty good support though. when it comes down to it, MF is a lane bully adc that becomes an ult bot in teamfights, but she doesn't bully lane more than other ADs enough to make up for her shortcomings. (especially because being an immobile ADC at the moment just means you get camped, and she doesnt even have CC like jhin/ashe/varus do to make up for it if she falls behind). she's better off at support, where she can still be a lane bully that transitions into an ult bot.[/quote]

[quote=Elusive Ferret]Support MF is getting indirectly nerfed when the changes to Thunderlord's hit :^)[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]List updated for the week. Changelog below: Top: [[Camille]] moved to top of tier 1. [[Poppy]] moved to tier 2. [[Swain]] moved down in tier 2. [[nautilus]] moved up in tier 2. Jungle: [[Rek'sai]] moved to tier 2. [[Kha'zix]] moved up in tier 2. Mid: [[Taliyah]] moved up in tier 2. Bot: [[Ashe]] and [[Varus]] moved to tier 1. [[Ezreal]] moved to tier 2. [[Caitlyn]] moved down in tier 1. [[kalista]] moved to tier 2. Support: [[karma]] and [[nami]] moved to tier 2. [[Malzahar]] and [[Miss Fortune]] moved to tier 1. [[Tahm Kench]] and [[Taric]] moved up in tier 2.[/quote]

[quote=Elusive Ferret]Rek'Sai no longer God Tier?[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]reksais still good. rengars just insane[/quote]

[quote=Elusive Ferret]Would it not be clearer to present your list as Rengar being God Tier, while the likes of Elise, Kha, Rek'Sai, Lee, Heca, Vi etc being Tier 1 for example. Or is Rengar really the ONLY Tier 1 Jungler right now in your opinion?[/quote]

[quote=Lasoor]Pretty strange seeing [[Warwick]] as Tier 4 for jungle when [[Warwick]] can out jungle almost every jungle champion in every aspect of jungling except ganking and even has more gank power than most junglers once he hits level 6. [[Warwick]] is probably the best jungle pick for low elo as well because he is able to easily turn a game around as soon as he hits his late game. So if you are losing a game because of your team you can easily turn it around just because [[Warwick]] can tank the entire enemy team long enough for his teammates to finish them. Also noticed [[Nocturne]] set at tier 3 when he is really strong right now and can do ganks really early. Honestly he feels broken because how strong he is. [[Rengar]] might have lots of burst, but if you build [[Nocturne]] full damage it looks like he 1 shots people every time he ults on them. He also can easily escape or stay in and kill every other enemy around him because unlike [[Rengar]] he is basic attack based not ability based. He snowballs easily. Another great thing about [[Nocturne]] is that once he hits level 4 he wins nearly any 1v1. There's only a few jungle champions who would be expected to win a 1v1 against [[Nocturne]] and a skilled [[Nocturne]] player can beat them too. [[Lee Sin]] is one of them, but it takes being good with [[Lee Sin]] and he can't win the face off consistently unless he builds full damage. Then you have [[Yorick]] at Tier 3 for top laners yet he can beat all your Tier 1 top laners and most of your Tier 2 top laners and is also one of the best team fighters and split pushers currently. Like I play a lot of [[Yorick]] and it would be hard for me to think of a match up he wouldn't win other than [[Darius]] who he can often tie with if the player is good. He'd lose vs a [[Xin Zhao]] potentially but could out play one and he also ties [[Tryndamere]]. Other than that he wins basically any match up or at least gives the player an advantage. Honestly I think this is just inaccurate overall for most of the champions. Like you got [[Ashe]] as Tier 1 adc yet put [[Vayne]], [[Twitch]], and [[Ezreal]] as Tier 2 yet those are currently better adcs than [[Ashe]] because of their strong early game and their mobility abilities to avoid ganks. And you got [[Kalista]] Tier 2 yet she is weak right now and certainly weaker than [[Lucian]], [[Draven]], and [[Tristana]] whom you put in Tier 3. And you put [[Miss Fortune]] support as Tier 1.... [[Miss Fortune]] support is so easily countered and the only time it is viable is when the enemy has a squishy ranged support. If the enemy picks a tank support and anything with strong gap closing then [[Miss Fortune]] is useless and she certainly can't peel for the adc. I'd take a [[Pantheon]] support over a [[Miss Fortune]] support in nearly every match up because he has way more supporting capability and killing capability. Yet you put him Tier 4.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender][quote=Elusive Ferret]Would it not be clearer to present your list as Rengar being God Tier, while the likes of Elise, Kha, Rek'Sai, Lee, Heca, Vi etc being Tier 1 for example. Or is Rengar really the ONLY Tier 1 Jungler right now in your opinion?[/quote] [mention=Elusive Fer...] It's really murky. I don't think any jungler has a good matchup into rengar, so hes the only tier 1 in the sense that if rengar is available, there is no real reason to pick any other jungler. It basically came down to whether I wanted to put 5 champs in t1, or just toss them into t2 and keep rengar t1, and I just felt that putting rengar alone better illustrated just how strong he is. Hecarim and vi are not on the same level as elise/kha/reksai/lee. [mention=Lasoor] Yikes. [[Warwick]] is a terrible champion. He gets by at lower mmr because people don't punish the fact that hes barely a champion until level 6. if he wasn't so terrible he wouldn't be getting reworked. [[Nocturne]] is tier 3 because he is just not reliable enough. Ever since the removal of sota, his devourer bruiser build just isnt very effective anymore, and that relegates him to building full damage with warrior to try to one shot people. The problem with this is that a single armor item or peel champion essentially makes him useless and relegates him to splitpushing, and if he falls behind, he cant kill anyone and just becomes completely useless. There are plenty of other junglers that can explode squishies, and they have much stronger earlygames than nocturne. [[Yorick]] is a strong laner and decent splitpusher... but thats it. He is weak in teamfights and his splitpush is a slow one that isnt even comparable to stronger splitpushers like fiora and jax. No real reason to pick him in most cases. His wall is interesting and can be useful in some cases, but is really easy to counterplay. Once again, in lower MMR, people are much more clueless. I'd wager that most of them don't even realize the wall is destructible. [[Ashe]] is tier 1 solely off her reliability. She contributes immediately at level 6, and even if her damage falls off because she is behind the curve of the game, she can make plays for her team with her ult, whether the team is ahead or not. There aren't any ADCs that are good at killing tanks in the midgame, so the ADCs with utility are just naturally better at the moment. [[Ezreal]] doesn't come online until 20 minutes when he finishes muramana and his sheen item. His earlygame isn't anything to write home about. [[Vayne]] is laughably terrible in the earlygame. I have no idea where you get the notion that vayne is strong in the earlygame from. [[Twitch]] has a slightly above average earlygame at best. He's extremely fragile and has to be super careful vs most meta supports, and he also has no instant repositioning ability. His main problem is how long it takes for him to scale up to kill tanks. [[Lucian]], [[Draven]], and [[Tristana]] are all extremely niche picks. [[Kalista]]'s lane power went up a TON with the buffs and she still has the same utility she always brought. She's comfortably better than all of those picks at a higher MMR where people actually use her laning tools and her ultimate properly. Tank supports don't beat ranged supports in lane. That only happens at low MMR. Sorry. There's a reason why everybody picks ranged supports now... and would you look at that... that's exactly what MF support dumpsters. And please tell me what these "easy counterpicks" for [[Miss Fortune]] support are. I'll have to write them down and go sell the information to professional coaches and analysts, since they clearly don't have any counters for MF support.[/quote]