Lasoor wrote:
Pro play is completely different than ranked play. Champions like
Warwick don't really offer a lot for team coordination. He is a solo queue pick. Everything I am saying is irrelevant to pro play and relevant to Ranked play. And for the record, the only reason Miss Fortune support was done in pro play is because of specific team comp, specific strategy, and because it specifically countered what it was up against. It was a specific pick and the general consensus across high elo is that it is generally bad. The general consensus in high elo is against most of what this list says. Yes, high elo, the place you people keep saying is full of experienced people.
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Who are these high elo players you are talking to? I don't know a single high elo player who thinks warwick is good. Hell, I havent even SEEN warwick in months. Sounds to me like you're talking out of your ***.
And don't come to me with the "i can be (insert elo here) if I played more." Nobody gives a ****. Your actions and results are what matters, not your intent. Gold elo doesn't mean anything either. Once you get to a minimum of D5, we'll talk. Until then, please stop spouting your opinions as fact. I'm completely fine with explaining list placements to you, but I'm not going to talk about why a certain champion is just fundamentally bad in precise detail. People pay me to do that.
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Quoted:
How many Warwick picks have you seen on solo queue streams lately m80?
And why are you using the past tense and implying a single case when MF support is literally getting played every other game as we speak?
And why are you using the past tense and implying a single case when MF support is literally getting played every other game as we speak?
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Quoted:
Who are these high elo players you are talking to? I don't know a single high elo player who thinks warwick is good. Hell, I havent even SEEN warwick in months.
Challenger/Master streamers like Trick2g, Nightblue3, and Redmercy.
League of Legends Riot employees.
League of Legends boards conversations.
Research done across youtube and multiple sites like mobafire.
And you haven't seen
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Quoted:
Until then, please stop spouting your opinions as fact. I'm completely fine with explaining list placements to you, but I'm not going to talk about why a certain champion is just fundamentally bad in precise detail. People pay me to do that.
You claim you welcome discussion yet refuse to discuss and instead just insult.
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It's a matter of perspective. You'd need the challenger warwick main to come down and say these things himself or have something to back up the statements. For others it looks like you are pulling words from the challenger/high elo Warwick main's mouth and we don't have anything besides those words. Even if there was a high elo Warwick main that joined Mobafire and told "Ay gobbers, Warwick is poppin' right now", you'd find 100 other high elo players that would say Warwick a bad champion atm.
Quoted:
Don't feed the uncaged wrath of Zaun please. Let's focus on H4xDefender thread and his Tier List. :)
Speaking of which, I am a bit confused a statement I read recently in this thread regarding tank support, ranged supports and
Miss Fortune. I mainly (exclusively?) play Support, specially
Nami and
Leona.
I am performing ok-ish at my current level (Plat IV and climbing), however, after reading the statement on how at the same level of skill tanky supports have no place due to the current Meta, should I be concerned? So far I have not played against a
Miss Fortune Support, althou I can get an idea on how is to play against it, but the lack of experience may me make too many mistakes, so I will welcome any piece of advice when playing as
Nami or
Leona.
Should I consider expanding my Champion Pool at this point? I mean, I am a OTP, but I am unsure if I should be concerned about that or not.
Speaking of which, I am a bit confused a statement I read recently in this thread regarding tank support, ranged supports and
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I am performing ok-ish at my current level (Plat IV and climbing), however, after reading the statement on how at the same level of skill tanky supports have no place due to the current Meta, should I be concerned? So far I have not played against a
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Should I consider expanding my Champion Pool at this point? I mean, I am a OTP, but I am unsure if I should be concerned about that or not.
You can climb with any champion, above tier 3 really easily if you just focus on mistakes you make and correct them. Tier 2 champions aren't bad by any means, and most tier 3 champions are fine too if you understand where they are strong and weak and play accordingly. Tier 1 champions are tier 1 simply because they fit in practically any situation if played properly.
Tanky supports don't have a place in the meta at the highest level since you simply can't survive lane. But in anywhere but Master+ this doesn't really happen since people don't punish them properly so it's fine.
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Quoted:
It's a matter of perspective. You'd need the challenger warwick main to come down and say these things himself or have something to back up the statements. For others it looks like you are pulling words from the challenger/high elo Warwick main's mouth and we don't have anything besides the words that someone does like this. Even if there was a high elo Warwick main that joined Mobafire and told "Ay gobbers, Warwick is poppin' right now", you'd find 100 other high elo players that would say Warwick a bad champion atm.
Considering
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As for the Challenger
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It is also statistically more likely that a
Warwick player is running
Fervor of Battle
and playing like an assassin. Which is the reason for low win rates.
Btw how do you add pictures to forum threads? Whenever I try it doesn't work.
Also, everywhere I look I see people saying what I'm saying when it comes to Miss Fortune support:
http://www.riftherald.com/culture/2016/10/26/13416812/miss-fortune-lol-support-runes-masteries-win-rate
https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/58qv0f/to_all_the_people_that_wanna_try_mf_support_in/
http://www.12up.com/posts/3988563-why-the-miss-fortune-support-pick-was-successful-at-worlds
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/fQ7mpcil-pros-and-cons-of-miss-fortune-support
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Btw how do you add pictures to forum threads? Whenever I try it doesn't work.
Also, everywhere I look I see people saying what I'm saying when it comes to Miss Fortune support:
http://www.riftherald.com/culture/2016/10/26/13416812/miss-fortune-lol-support-runes-masteries-win-rate
https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/58qv0f/to_all_the_people_that_wanna_try_mf_support_in/
http://www.12up.com/posts/3988563-why-the-miss-fortune-support-pick-was-successful-at-worlds
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/fQ7mpcil-pros-and-cons-of-miss-fortune-support
^ He's just gonna say it's coz of all the "bad warwick players".
"Warwick is a great teamfighter"
Things Warwick offers in a teamfight:
1. One type of CC (Suppression) which can be cancelled and/or removed with QSS. Two if you use BOTRK active which champs with a dash/blink can easily get out of
2. Ok attack speed steroid.
Things he doesn't offer:
1. AoE
2. Constant CC
3. Reliable damage (needs to be able to AA, can be kited. Kite potential diminishes if target is lowered but he is still awful vs ANY support that has reuseable CC)
4. Reliable engage
5. Reliable tanking (sure you can stack resistances. That's it. It doesn't make him a tank. You need to be able to Q and AA in order to tank more).
6. Burst Damage
7. Utility
Literally any tanky jungler outclasses him in terms of teamfighting performance. Most if not all have AoE CC, Tanky steroids, constant CC, ok damage (usually health %), stronger early game ganks, reliable engage. Names? Zac (insane ganks, decent damage, relevant all game), Poppy (insane steroids on W, amazing utility on W + E + R, reliable CC on E + R and ok on Q, decent over time damage, good early ganks on any pushed laner), Sejuani (great CC, amazing engage, decent steroids with CotC, dencent health % damage),
Rammus (insane early pressure if enemy jungler leaves him unchecked, demands that you ward really deep from level 5+, ok damage, ok engage midgame +, amazing tank steroids), Amumu (good gank potential, great AoE, decent damage, ganks are relevant even if he misses Q post 6 due to R range),
Malphite (much better teamfight potential, meh ganks pre-6 but doable vs pushed targets, great post-6 especially for objective control), Sion (decent clear, amazing AoE CC, amazing engage, ******ed tanky, decent damage), Shen (decent ganks, great utility, ok damage), Nautilus (absurd CC, decent damage, amazing engage).
And now you can go "yeah but Warwick outdamages them". I mean yeah sure, if he can stick. And also he does that because, surprise, he's not a tank he's a bruiser and he excels at skirmishes and not at teamfights. I'm not gonna bother explain how half the bruisers on the list have much more burst than WW with the same amount of damage items (first name that pops to mind is
Elise), while the second half brings more utility.
Warwick is a glorified suppression bot. And if you're gonna go "but this one guy does it in challenger", sorry to break it to you but there's ALWAYS been people maining low played, low winrate champions in challenger and master.
"Warwick is a great teamfighter"
Things Warwick offers in a teamfight:
1. One type of CC (Suppression) which can be cancelled and/or removed with QSS. Two if you use BOTRK active which champs with a dash/blink can easily get out of
2. Ok attack speed steroid.
Things he doesn't offer:
1. AoE
2. Constant CC
3. Reliable damage (needs to be able to AA, can be kited. Kite potential diminishes if target is lowered but he is still awful vs ANY support that has reuseable CC)
4. Reliable engage
5. Reliable tanking (sure you can stack resistances. That's it. It doesn't make him a tank. You need to be able to Q and AA in order to tank more).
6. Burst Damage
7. Utility
Literally any tanky jungler outclasses him in terms of teamfighting performance. Most if not all have AoE CC, Tanky steroids, constant CC, ok damage (usually health %), stronger early game ganks, reliable engage. Names? Zac (insane ganks, decent damage, relevant all game), Poppy (insane steroids on W, amazing utility on W + E + R, reliable CC on E + R and ok on Q, decent over time damage, good early ganks on any pushed laner), Sejuani (great CC, amazing engage, decent steroids with CotC, dencent health % damage),
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And now you can go "yeah but Warwick outdamages them". I mean yeah sure, if he can stick. And also he does that because, surprise, he's not a tank he's a bruiser and he excels at skirmishes and not at teamfights. I'm not gonna bother explain how half the bruisers on the list have much more burst than WW with the same amount of damage items (first name that pops to mind is
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Thank you Byron for 2014's loudest laugh up till today
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And why are you using the past tense and implying a single case when MF support is literally getting played every other game as we speak?