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7.4 Tier List + AMA

Creator: H4xDefender February 20, 2014 5:06pm
4307 posts - page 428 of 431
Lasoor
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Things Warwick offers in a team fight:

+ Consistent damage
+ Instant gap closing CC and damaging ability
+ Team attack speed buff
+ Vision on low health enemies and speed to finish them off
+ Tanking ability


Things Warwick does badly:

- Lacks burst
- Late game champion/games end earlier now
- Not a lot of CC/peel
- Can be kited
- Can't tank without hitting until late game when you have the right items so is countered by cc as a result (hence why i build Tenacity)
- Trouble sticking on ranged enemies unless you build specifically for sticking on them



How to use him in a fight? It's simple. If an enemy tries to close in on your back line, such as a Rengar for instance, you just ult them and your team can easily kill them. Even if Rengar clears the cc he still takes the damage. If it's a fighter and not an assassin trying to get your adc, for example, then you just continuously hit the fighter until it dies. A good adc will be orb-walking and the fighter is now dead. Believe it or not Warwick does quite a bit of damage thanks to him building items like Blade of the Ruined King and Wit's End and his ability to 1v1 almost any fighter champion makes him a great bodyguard. You use the attack speed ability for objective clearing and helping your basic attack teammates increase their DPS. If your team has tanks then you will have the role of diving in the enemy's back line with your ult. You will get a shield with Courage of the Colossus and added sustain from the ult itself. While entire enemy team tries to kill you your team can sweep them up for the win and you can Flash out to survive. If they don't focus you down then you get to distract or kill their squishy carries and your team can take advantage of that as well for the win. This works best late game when you have items like Spirit Visage and Frozen Heart.


Tbh this argument is pretty useless though because his rework arrives next patch and buffs all his current roles and gives him new ones so when that happens you'll probably accept him as good.
FalseoGod
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So basically you enumerate pretty much the same pros/cons and conclude he's good or better than the rest of the champs listed. Then proceed to get people tired so they ask you for evidence of your claims via skill, can't provide any, go "omg this ain't about skill your arguments suck". This is pointless and no longer a discussion.



Lasoor
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Quoted:
So basically you enumerate pretty much the same pros/cons and conclude he's good or better than the rest of the champs listed.



I show the pros and cons in a less biased way than you, I show some different ones, and I explain in detail how to work around the cons by utilizing the pros. I explained in great detail how to use him in a team fight.
FalseoGod
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"Less biased" from the guy with a Warwick guide, warwick avatar and a warwick main.



@HAX: you said you'd add Swain mid but you didn't, my heart breaks </3
Lasoor
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Quoted:
"Less biased" from the guy with a Warwick guide, warwick avatar and a warwick main.


Did you even read them? Claiming they're biased leaves me to believe you didn't. They were harsh against him if anything and yet I explained in detail after how I work around his faults when I play him.

Like seriously, do you even read before you respond?

Sure I main him, which is why I know more about him than you and why I understand all his shortcomings. I experienced a lot of matchups that just decimate him and figured out how to overcome it by focusing on keeping the team alive so they can carry. If you play Warwick like Xin Zhao, Lee Sin, Rengar, or like any strong gap closing fighter or assassin then you will do terrible. He isn't about getting kills. He's about making it possible for his team to get kills and win fights even while out numbered.
Fryla
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God this discussion was a pain to read. I hope we're done here and can focus on the topic again instead of our inability to say we're wrong? :D
H4xDefender
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I'll add swain mid in the next rotation. Must have slipped my mind but I don't think he's particularly strong in mid lane at the moment anyway.

I'm not moving Warwick. He's right where he belongs in my opinion and if you don't like it after all me, and all of these other people have tried explaining to you why he is a fundamentally bad champion, then go make your own tier list and see how many people agree with your bronze opinions. I can guarantee the answer will be very few because you simply aren't close to me, or most of the other people in this thread who have responded to you in terms of game knowledge. It's honestly insulting to me that you think you are.

Trick2G and Redmercy aren't challenger level. They are D2 on a good day and they both aren't better or more knowledgeable as a player than I am. I don't care who your brother is either. I'm a better player than him too.

Nightblue3 is a bit different. He's a good player, but a lot of his opinions are skewed since he plays on smurfs 99% of the time. Most high elo players don't hold his opinion in very high regard. All-in all, I'm pretty close to him on the spectrum in terms of skill and knowledge. There's a reason he doesn't ever play warwick seriously either too. (It's cuz warwick is a bad champion).

Warwick is a fine champion at lower mmr where people are bad (which is where you play) but he doesn't hold up in higher MMR at all. This is why he is tier 4. In a lower MMR of play I'd say you could argue for him to be a bit higher, but I don't balance the tier list around potato play. Neither does riot. I understand how warwick works, which is why I say he's a bad champion. If I found out I'm wrong later, then I change the list or I put a champion in limbo while I learn how they work and where to place them. Warwick is neither. He's bad, and this is a known fact.

And I do welcome discussion. I refuted all of your points and you literally threw them right back at me without refuting **** and said "you're wrong." No point arguing any further with you if that's how you react.

That being said, I'm done responding to you on the topic of Warwick. If there are other topics you or anyone else want to discuss, then I'm all ears.
DisturbedFox
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Lasoor wrote:



Actually you can't. A large majority of Bronze and Unranked players simply don't play ranked, like me and that is why they remain a low elo. To claim someone who doesn't play ranked is stuck in bronze is absurd and illogical. And I have no problem getting out of bronze, I was Silver last season and this season I have easily been winning most of my games. I don't even see how anyone could be stuck in bronze.


You're very delusional if you think my Runes and Masteries are wrong. My guide goes into great detail on why they are optimal. You have got to be the worst debater in history. Like seriously, all you're doing is saying "You're bad" basically without actually explaining your way of thinking. You can't even tell me why you'd take Fervor over Courage on Warwick because you don't even know what you're talking about. Again, unlike you, I can easily go into great detail on why one is better than the other and my guide is proof of that however I am not entirely sure about Courage since the nerf on it and may be switching back to Grasp of the Undying or even using Thunderlord's or Stormraider's Surge.

And if you are referring to the fact that I showed the path to Stormraider's and Courage, that's simply because either work on Warwick and my guide has a masteries section explaining it all. That was my first guide I made and to me it made way more sense to show all the items and builds on one page so no one gets confused when looking at it.


No. The large majority is exactly as I described. Like 50-60% of the ranked playerbase is bronze. You ended s6 silver 4 0lp. It's basically bronze. The skill difference between high bronze and low silver is minimal. You could play ad soraka and get to at least gold if you're not a bad player, but if you think it's good you're delusional. The same with warwick, just a little less extreme of an example.

Honestly I don't know much about warwick and that's mostly because there isn't much to know about the champ, he's the annie of the jungle except even more basic because he has like 1-2 build paths to be even remotely useful. And I don't even know why I'm answering this cuz I'm talking to a wall but I'll just do it and go about my day and consider this discussion ended. You take fervor over colossus because only ur ult procs colossus, so u potentially proc it half as many times as a useful champion (e.g Vi) would. Fervor at least adds damage to compensate for your lack of usefulness and the fact that you're going to be buying a few tank items if you decide you actually want to win after picking warwick.
FalseoGod
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Fryla wrote:
God this discussion was a pain to read. I hope we're done here and can focus on the topic again instead of our inability to say we're wrong? :D


Every X months someone comes up with the same three things in common:

- I think this tier list is wrong because I have an opinion and I don't care for yours;
- I don't belong in my current elo, I'm actually Gold/Plat (one guy was challenger level kappa) I just don't play much ranked/my team sux;
- I know high elos;

Unfortunately, it's often so infuriatingly wrong or obnoxious that many get suckered in, me inclued. Oh well, it'll pass.

Perhaps the biggest irony is that this is happening when WW is one patch from maybe becoming a champion at last.
Thank you Byron for 2014's loudest laugh up till today
Lasoor
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Quoted:
And I do welcome discussion. I refuted all of your points and you literally threw them right back at me without refuting **** and said "you're wrong." No point arguing any further with you if that's how you react.


You didn't refute my points though. You simply turned it into a debate about rank and skill instead of about specific reasons Warwick is bad or good. And you're still actually doing that, just in more detail now.


Quoted:
No. The large majority is exactly as I described. Like 50-60% of the ranked playerbase is bronze. You ended s6 silver 4 0lp. It's basically bronze. The skill difference between high bronze and low silver is minimal. You could play ad soraka and get to at least gold if you're not a bad player, but if you think it's good you're delusional. The same with warwick, just a little less extreme of an example.


When comparing my way of building and playing Warwick(meaning the right way) to champions who were placed as Tier 3 I'd say him being Tier 4 is very inaccurate. I recognize that he is off-meta right now, but so are many of the Tier 3s on this list. I secondary main Nocturne and am really good with him, can easily get tons of kills without dying. He's like brain dead to me at this point because how much I got his simple mechanics down. And he is far harder to secure a game win with while behind than Warwick. Warwick while ahead can do a lot of what on-hit Nocturne does except with more tanking ability and while his whole team is behind he is normally his team's carry because he works well even without much gold. He needs experience more than gold early-mid game and because of that he is strong the entire time which allows him to get the gold he needs to scale into late game as a powerful champion. Yes he has issues, but his strengths make him harder to kill. You can push him out of a fight if you know how, but killing him is difficult. With Nocturne he is basically useless when behind. He is so easy to kill, he can't do a whole lot of anything. He needs his gold to stay relevant. He is strong early game and needs to use that to remain strong.

I am focusing on comparison between Warwick and Nocturne because those are the 2 champions I am best with. I find that Warwick has way more use than Nocturne, especially in higher elo where doing risky plays doesn't pay off as much. Nocturne does a lot of risky plays.

You even made claim Aatrox is better right now than Warwick. Even in higher elo.. that's just absurd. I play Aatrox too and feel he's pretty strong if played right, but he falls off really quick and ends up mostly being a split pusher. I even had a discussion with Vapora Dark about Aatrox's strengths and he even said Warwick is way better.

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