7.4 Tier List + AMA

[quote=Luther3000]How many Warwick picks have you seen on solo queue streams lately m80? And why are you using the past tense and implying a single case when MF support is literally getting played every other game as we speak?[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender][quote=Lasoor]Pro play is completely different than ranked play. Champions like [[Warwick]] don't really offer a lot for team coordination. He is a solo queue pick. Everything I am saying is irrelevant to pro play and relevant to Ranked play. And for the record, the only reason Miss Fortune support was done in pro play is because of specific team comp, specific strategy, and because it specifically countered what it was up against. It was a specific pick and the general consensus across high elo is that it is generally bad. The general consensus in high elo is against most of what this list says. Yes, high elo, the place you people keep saying is full of experienced people.[/quote] Who are these high elo players you are talking to? I don't know a single high elo player who thinks warwick is good. Hell, I havent even SEEN warwick in months. Sounds to me like you're talking out of your ass. And don't come to me with the "i can be (insert elo here) if I played more." Nobody gives a fuck. Your actions and results are what matters, not your intent. Gold elo doesn't mean anything either. Once you get to a minimum of D5, we'll talk. Until then, please stop spouting your opinions as fact. I'm completely fine with explaining list placements to you, but I'm not going to talk about why a certain champion is just fundamentally bad in precise detail. People pay me to do that.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Yknow it is an "alternative fact" that everyone is challenger :P.[/quote]

[quote=Lasoor][quote]How many Warwick picks have you seen on solo queue streams lately m80? And why are you using the past tense and implying a single case when MF support is literally getting played every other game as we speak?[/quote] [[Warwick]] is rarely picked and rarely played right. This is well known and my guide actually explains why the reason people think he is bad. It has to do with them just not using him right and the only reason I know how to use him right is because my high elo brother who played him since Season 1. And MF's pick rate doesn't line up with you saying she is picked literally every game as we speak. If you look it up it is extremely hard to find people recommending MF support, they recommend the opposite. [quote]Who are these high elo players you are talking to? I don't know a single high elo player who thinks warwick is good. Hell, I havent even SEEN warwick in months.[/quote] Challenger/Master streamers like Trick2g, Nightblue3, and Redmercy. League of Legends Riot employees. League of Legends boards conversations. Research done across youtube and multiple sites like mobafire. And you haven't seen [[Warwick]] in months because people don't play him. That simple. If you see me play him you'd realize right away that I know how to. I actually have seen quite a bit of [[Warwick]] players who are just complete trash because they don't do anything right. They don't build him right, they don't play him right, they do stupid things. Hell I've seen Mastery 7 [[Warwick]] mains who do terrible with him. It's just easy to get Mast 7 on him because no one plays him, so it's easy to get S. [quote]Until then, please stop spouting your opinions as fact. I'm completely fine with explaining list placements to you, but I'm not going to talk about why a certain champion is just fundamentally bad in precise detail. People pay me to do that.[/quote] You claim you welcome discussion yet refuse to discuss and instead just insult.[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu][img=https://i.gyazo.com/1776f20d4885e6dabd4d89abfce3554d.png width=500] It's a matter of perspective. You'd need the challenger warwick main to come down and say these things himself or have something to back up the statements. For others it looks like you are pulling words from the challenger/high elo Warwick main's mouth and we don't have anything besides those words. Even if there was a high elo Warwick main that joined Mobafire and told "Ay gobbers, Warwick is poppin' right now", you'd find 100 other high elo players that would say Warwick a bad champion atm.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender][quote=idmb22]Don't feed the uncaged wrath of Zaun please. Let's focus on H4xDefender thread and his Tier List. :) Speaking of which, I am a bit confused a statement I read recently in this thread regarding tank support, ranged supports and [[Miss Fortune]]. I mainly (exclusively?) play Support, specially [[Nami]] and [[Leona]]. I am performing ok-ish at my current level (Plat IV and climbing), however, after reading the statement on how at the same level of skill tanky supports have no place due to the current Meta, should I be concerned? So far I have not played against a [[Miss Fortune]] Support, althou I can get an idea on how is to play against it, but the lack of experience may me make too many mistakes, so I will welcome any piece of advice when playing as [[Nami]] or [[Leona]]. Should I consider expanding my Champion Pool at this point? I mean, I am a OTP, but I am unsure if I should be concerned about that or not.[/quote] You can climb with any champion, above tier 3 really easily if you just focus on mistakes you make and correct them. Tier 2 champions aren't bad by any means, and most tier 3 champions are fine too if you understand where they are strong and weak and play accordingly. Tier 1 champions are tier 1 simply because they fit in practically any situation if played properly. Tanky supports don't have a place in the meta at the highest level since you simply can't survive lane. But in anywhere but Master+ this doesn't really happen since people don't punish them properly so it's fine.[/quote]

[quote=Lasoor][quote]It's a matter of perspective. You'd need the challenger warwick main to come down and say these things himself or have something to back up the statements. For others it looks like you are pulling words from the challenger/high elo Warwick main's mouth and we don't have anything besides the words that someone does like this. Even if there was a high elo Warwick main that joined Mobafire and told "Ay gobbers, Warwick is poppin' right now", you'd find 100 other high elo players that would say Warwick a bad champion atm.[/quote] Considering [[Warwick]] is a pick that can take you from Bronze to high Platinum with minimal actual skill if you build him right I'd say he is a great jungle pick and more deserving of Tier 3 or Tier 2. And yes, there are players who have done this. Just search it up. As for the Challenger [[Warwick]] player, I don't go off of what he does. He is just proof it's possible. I have my own way of building that I find more optimal. And again, I have played games with Diamond players as [[Warwick]] and done really well.[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu]Here are statistics of Warwick: [img=https://i.gyazo.com/b76e389e68f2d0b6ee64b2cf216d603c.png][/quote]

[quote=Lasoor]It is also statistically more likely that a [[Warwick]] player is running [[Fervor of Battle]] and playing like an assassin. Which is the reason for low win rates. Btw how do you add pictures to forum threads? Whenever I try it doesn't work. Also, everywhere I look I see people saying what I'm saying when it comes to Miss Fortune support: http://www.riftherald.com/culture/2016/10/26/13416812/miss-fortune-lol-support-runes-masteries-win-rate https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/58qv0f/to_all_the_people_that_wanna_try_mf_support_in/ http://www.12up.com/posts/3988563-why-the-miss-fortune-support-pick-was-successful-at-worlds http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/fQ7mpcil-pros-and-cons-of-miss-fortune-support[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod]^ He's just gonna say it's coz of all the "bad warwick players". "Warwick is a great teamfighter" Things Warwick offers in a teamfight: 1. One type of CC (Suppression) which can be cancelled and/or removed with QSS. Two if you use BOTRK active which champs with a dash/blink can easily get out of 2. Ok attack speed steroid. Things he doesn't offer: 1. AoE 2. Constant CC 3. Reliable damage (needs to be able to AA, can be kited. Kite potential diminishes if target is lowered but he is still awful vs ANY support that has reuseable CC) 4. Reliable engage 5. Reliable tanking (sure you can stack resistances. That's it. It doesn't make him a tank. You need to be able to Q and AA in order to tank more). 6. Burst Damage 7. Utility Literally any tanky jungler outclasses him in terms of teamfighting performance. Most if not all have AoE CC, Tanky steroids, constant CC, ok damage (usually health %), stronger early game ganks, reliable engage. Names? Zac (insane ganks, decent damage, relevant all game), Poppy (insane steroids on W, amazing utility on W + E + R, reliable CC on E + R and ok on Q, decent over time damage, good early ganks on any pushed laner), Sejuani (great CC, amazing engage, decent steroids with CotC, dencent health % damage), [[rammus]] (insane early pressure if enemy jungler leaves him unchecked, demands that you ward really deep from level 5+, ok damage, ok engage midgame +, amazing tank steroids), Amumu (good gank potential, great AoE, decent damage, ganks are relevant even if he misses Q post 6 due to R range), [[malphite]] (much better teamfight potential, meh ganks pre-6 but doable vs pushed targets, great post-6 especially for objective control), Sion (decent clear, amazing AoE CC, amazing engage, retarded tanky, decent damage), Shen (decent ganks, great utility, ok damage), Nautilus (absurd CC, decent damage, amazing engage). And now you can go "yeah but Warwick outdamages them". I mean yeah sure, if he can stick. And also he does that because, surprise, he's not a tank he's a bruiser and he excels at skirmishes and not at teamfights. I'm not gonna bother explain how half the bruisers on the list have much more burst than WW with the same amount of damage items (first name that pops to mind is [[elise]]), while the second half brings more utility. [[Warwick]] is a glorified suppression bot. And if you're gonna go "but this one guy does it in challenger", sorry to break it to you but there's ALWAYS been people maining low played, low winrate champions in challenger and master.[/quote]