in my opinion you are right but as a person who only plays premade i dont find this a problem, good team is the way to solve this problem. plus shacoes ability to do blue buff at level one is not that bad. it can be done with only 2 jack in the boxes, with 3rd box placed after first two boxes have been poped
@Dante Rebellion:
I've dealt with JitB fields as Nunu before.
My solution against boxes? Eat one; Damage negated. Poor little jack.
Place a Vision ward, and your field is eliminated.
And, I never said that wrecking a Shaco's jungle means they're guaranteed to lose.
But it does mean you're officially winning for the first 2~3 minutes.
It's winning the small battles that wins the big war.
You think of it as "it's only 5 minions",
I think it as "I'm controlling your movements"
Example: Our 5th guy warded your golem. You smite. Enemy Udyr comes by and goes Tiger Stance your 200~300 HP ***. (Tiger stance has the strongest early game 1v1 DPS)
Or... If we were too slow.
Example: at 2:40 - I plant a ward at enemy Red Lizard -> No Red Buff for you -> Silly Shaco's doomed~
Wrecking your ideal JitB set up means I have control of the game, and you don't. And Shaco is all about causing confusion and controlling the game. So if in that one instance, you're not in control, and for Shaco, that's a really bad joke. :P
~ ~ ~
Although, most people don't go this far, so usually it ends with Shaco having a very bad start.
And it's very agreeable that not starting at your fastest route does harm your fluency into ganks.
~ ~ ~
My Point is:
It's a lot easier to predict and disrupt Shaco's start then other junglers.
I've dealt with JitB fields as Nunu before.
My solution against boxes? Eat one; Damage negated. Poor little jack.
Place a Vision ward, and your field is eliminated.
And, I never said that wrecking a Shaco's jungle means they're guaranteed to lose.
But it does mean you're officially winning for the first 2~3 minutes.
It's winning the small battles that wins the big war.
You think of it as "it's only 5 minions",
I think it as "I'm controlling your movements"
Example: Our 5th guy warded your golem. You smite. Enemy Udyr comes by and goes Tiger Stance your 200~300 HP ***. (Tiger stance has the strongest early game 1v1 DPS)
Or... If we were too slow.
Example: at 2:40 - I plant a ward at enemy Red Lizard -> No Red Buff for you -> Silly Shaco's doomed~
Wrecking your ideal JitB set up means I have control of the game, and you don't. And Shaco is all about causing confusion and controlling the game. So if in that one instance, you're not in control, and for Shaco, that's a really bad joke. :P
~ ~ ~
Although, most people don't go this far, so usually it ends with Shaco having a very bad start.
And it's very agreeable that not starting at your fastest route does harm your fluency into ganks.
~ ~ ~
My Point is:
It's a lot easier to predict and disrupt Shaco's start then other junglers.
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While jungling as Warwick I followed the path golems, wraiths, wolves, blue, golems, and as i got to red I heard a jitb being placed, ran around to the other side of the camp and smite stole it just as it got low, and proceeded to kill Shaco, he literally couldn't do much of anything after this point as I was hard counter jungling and he wound up feeding and verbally abusing all players in the game. I won't lie, he was the most skilled player on his team, but Shaco really needs that head start (we also focused him down pretty fast with either a Warwick or Malzahar ult. Gotta say it was pretty funny though.
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xLiqur
<Member>
<Member>
It seems like alot of people dont understand Shaco's greatest advantage in the jungling phase, almost every premade I play as Shaco, I automatically assume they are going to to ruin my boxes. Now I use this to my advantage, I place myself and my boxes in places to detour them from my route, or just to simply ward out jungle. If for once I dont feel safe, or im about to get gank, I immeditly go to their red, and start counter jungling. By the time they realize their red and small golems are gone, im on my way mid to gank. (or blue and wolves)
If you watch top game play of Shaco by Renigald, you will notice what im talking about, so many times people come into his route early game, but he expects this and doest spam his boxes intell its cleared up. He pretty much does what I just explained, but i strongly suggest shaco players watch his videos, because he truly shows shacos strengths in kititing enemmies into situations they beleive to be safe.
Anyways thats my 2 cents. I agree he can easily be "inturrupted" during his jungle route, but that will just make him less predictable if he knows what he is doing ;)
If you watch top game play of Shaco by Renigald, you will notice what im talking about, so many times people come into his route early game, but he expects this and doest spam his boxes intell its cleared up. He pretty much does what I just explained, but i strongly suggest shaco players watch his videos, because he truly shows shacos strengths in kititing enemmies into situations they beleive to be safe.
Anyways thats my 2 cents. I agree he can easily be "inturrupted" during his jungle route, but that will just make him less predictable if he knows what he is doing ;)
The battleroom is ready. Liqur's hands are steady. The enemy is deadly.
Lazukin
<Member>
<Member>
xLiqur wrote:
It seems like alot of people dont understand Shaco's greatest advantage in the jungling phase, almost every premade I play as Shaco, I automatically assume they are going to to ruin my boxes. Now I use this to my advantage, I place myself and my boxes in places to detour them from my route, or just to simply ward out jungle. If for once I dont feel safe, or im about to get gank, I immeditly go to their red, and start counter jungling. By the time they realize their red and small golems are gone, im on my way mid to gank. (or blue and wolves)
If you watch top game play of Shaco by Renigald, you will notice what im talking about, so many times people come into his route early game, but he expects this and doest spam his boxes intell its cleared up. He pretty much does what I just explained, but i strongly suggest shaco players watch his videos, because he truly shows shacos strengths in kititing enemmies into situations they beleive to be safe.
Anyways thats my 2 cents. I agree he can easily be "inturrupted" during his jungle route, but that will just make him less predictable if he knows what he is doing ;)
Every word you said is good advice.
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xLiqur wrote:
It seems like alot of people dont understand Shaco's greatest advantage in the jungling phase, almost every premade I play as Shaco, I automatically assume they are going to to ruin my boxes. Now I use this to my advantage, I place myself and my boxes in places to detour them from my route, or just to simply ward out jungle. If for once I dont feel safe, or im about to get gank, I immeditly go to their red, and start counter jungling. By the time they realize their red and small golems are gone, im on my way mid to gank. (or blue and wolves)
If you watch top game play of Shaco by Renigald, you will notice what im talking about, so many times people come into his route early game, but he expects this and doest spam his boxes intell its cleared up. He pretty much does what I just explained, but i strongly suggest shaco players watch his videos, because he truly shows shacos strengths in kititing enemmies into situations they beleive to be safe.
Anyways thats my 2 cents. I agree he can easily be "inturrupted" during his jungle route, but that will just make him less predictable if he knows what he is doing ;)
Exactly what Ive been saying. +rep
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Having teammates help = Farm they may lose in lane.
It means the enemy successfully hurt your early game, even if you adapted quickly.
A good team always babysits their jungler and you always get back to lane in time to get experience, if you do it right. Helping at blue is a different story but Shaco shouldn't need more than a leash and a few attacks, delaying you by three or four seconds at best.