Serpe's Jungling Corner!

[quote=ZioSerpe]I hope you don't mind if I don't quote everything this time, is a just a huge work, I'll just answer question with titles so you can browse easily. [[Shaco]] In high elo play with the current Korean theorycrafting on him he's as disruptive as it gets. With the current tanky build his damage stands amazing, plus being an excelent roamer he gets pretty much everywhere fast while having good ganks (wich is what shyvana lacks) and his counter jungling is amazing. He doesn't have problems with being counterjungled either because despite of his lvl his ability to kill buffs fast is damn good. [[Warwick]] I personally theorycraft him myself, althou he doesn't get much love in competitive because well known jungler prefer other kind of picks to teamcomp better. It's worth noticing tho that his lvl 6 ganks combinerd with a burst ally are a sure kill, and he's the only one who can grant that, flash + ult and the enemy is in serious trouble, he even beats maokai in this deparment as an enemy can flash away during [[twisted advance]]+[[arcane smash]] combo while [[infinite duress]] doesn't give time to react. It's also worth noticing That lategame he can get invincible with very cheap items, making him a great jungler (only udyr can make the lesser amount of gold of a jungler shine that great) He's by far the best tank in the jungle right now when build correctly. [[Volibear]] He makes an excelent job as a jungler and scales well into lategame. His ganks re excelent due the absurd amount of damage he can pull. Also unlike other junglers he can build Tier one items since he needs less items to be effective. The fact you can go straight for warmogs while it would be a suicide for another jungler (unless thay're snowballing hard) Gives him quite an edge in power over most junglers. [[Shyvana]] Her fast clear times combined with an excelent roaming ability, makes her even stronger with the new jungle to be honest, She can reach lvl 6 pretty fast and clear enemy small camps in a blink of an eye. Once again counter jungling, outside of buff stealing, doesn't penalize enemy junler that much, while farming the enemy jungle at a fast pace is good for junglers that prefer levels over ganking. Long Story Short, she doesn't have great ganks but can, and should, outlevel the enemy jungler to make up for it. [[Nasus]] & [[Cho'gath]] I still disagree on them being at a good pace in the jungle as they would be in solo top. Last cho gath I run into as maokai gave me the impression I was just outclassing him, and he didn't seem a that bad of a jungler either, Anyway I'll try him and let you know in next Tier update. Same goes for nasus (I know his ganks are a bitch thanks to [[wither]]); I'll give him some jungle love and then get back at you. [[Irelia]] I might have her too low as T5, her clearing times ain't good, but her ganks put up just SO MUCH DAMAGE on early ganks (we're talking Master Yi damage here), but well, between slow clearing and actual amazing power in solo top she seemd more like T5, will give her some jungle love aswell. [[Olaf]] Problem with him is that in the old jungle you had to max [[undertrow]] 1st for better clearing times and better gank utility. With the new jungle it really seems like you can sacrifice some jungling speed for pure damage as he doesn't get low on health anymore, idk I should test it more and let you know.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=ZioSerpe] [[Shaco]] [/quote] Agree. [quote=ZioSerpe] [[Warwick]] He's by far the best tank in the jungle right now when build correctly. [/quote] LMFAO, never in a million years. Rammus and Amumu are both better, as is Cho and probably even Shyvana and I'd go as far as to say Udyr is probably better too. [quote=ZioSerpe] [[Volibear]] [/quote] No opinion~ [quote=ZioSerpe] [[Shyvana]] Long Story Short, she doesn't have great ganks but can, and should, outlevel the enemy jungler to make up for it. [/quote] Her ganks are Udyr-esque and decent. Her power jungle is so gud and gear independency is so gud. [quote=ZioSerpe] [[Nasus]] & [[Cho'gath]] I still disagree on them being at a good pace in the jungle as they would be in solo top. Last cho gath I run into as maokai gave me the impression I was just outclassing him, and he didn't seem a that bad of a jungler either, Anyway I'll try him and let you know in next Tier update. Same goes for nasus (I know his ganks are a bitch thanks to [[wither]]); I'll give him some jungle love and then get back at you. [/quote] Cheers, Cho is easily Tier 1. If you want to know how I do it, I can give you the secret sauce. (Runes, masteries, etc) [quote=ZioSerpe] [[Irelia]] I might have her too low as T5, [/quote] The highest she could ever be is T3. Her kit doesn't do it. [quote=ZioSerpe] [[Olaf]] Problem with him [/quote] It's really his gear dependency. Nothing else.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=Zeprido] I agree with this. Needs successful ganks though. [/quote] Yes, but that doesn't always mean he needs kills. Just successful ganks, like ya said. ;o[/quote]

[quote=Zeprido][quote=DuffTime] [quote=Zeprido] I agree with this. Needs successful ganks though. [/quote] Yes, but that doesn't always mean he needs kills. Just successful ganks, like ya said. ;o [/quote] Exactly, successful gank if any combination of the following - Damage, burn summoners, pressure, kill, tower. If they burn summoners and don't B, gank again. Still feel Shaco should not be T1 due to his hard fall off and delicate early game.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=Zeprido] Still feel Shaco should not be T1 due to his hard fall off and delicate early game. [/quote] Trust me, it was hard for me to accept the fact that a champion like Shaco could ever be that strong, but he just is. Lol. It's disgusting, and cheesy, but he is just really really strong right now.[/quote]

[quote=Zeprido][quote=DuffTime] [quote=Zeprido] Still feel Shaco should not be T1 due to his hard fall off and delicate early game. [/quote] Trust me, it was hard for me to accept the fact that a champion like Shaco could ever be that strong, but he just is. Lol. It's disgusting, and cheesy, but he is just really really strong right now. [/quote] He's strong in the sense of how he effects the game, if he has a poor early game, its going to be effectively 4v5 by mid game. If he has a strong early game, expect an early victory or ridiculous control of the game. I agree his is strong early game, however it does not offset his falloff or how delicate he is.[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe][[Rammus]] Seriusly, DAT GANK! He's flat out scary for the enemy team, if you overexted you're gonna get raped. That's prolly one of his major strengh, the team that has him as an enemy is forced to play way more careful, thus limiting enemy agression in lane phase just by being selected. Also, seriusly PBALL>flash>taunt!, riot mite aswell add him a voide saying "bite me" when he does so. As much as he needs fuccesfull ganks, it's also very hard for him to have unsuccesfull ones. [[Warwick]] Oh he's tanky, trust me on this, he gets tanky way faster than amumu and rammus do, and he has way better damage. Point is in large teamfights you he is gonna stay alive and deal damage. I don't know if you people have a good grasp of Basketball, anyway let's say warwick can let you play Box&1 in teamights: he sticks to his target and neutralizes it without reciving any help and reviving damage he might easily heal off after he's done killing. I say it once again, he's very overlooked, but dat wolf is strong.[/quote]

[quote=Zeprido]Warwick is simply outclassed at the moment, Riot needs to either adjust him for the new jungle so he's faster (faster level 6) or change something about him to give him more utility. Not much he can do after he ults in team fights other than damage, he is either first to die or last to live. Rammus and Amumu continue to have their CC and therefore generate more threat.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=Zeprido] He's strong in the sense of how he effects the game, if he has a poor early game, its going to be effectively 4v5 by mid game. If he has a strong early game, expect an early victory or ridiculous control of the game. I agree his is strong early game, however it does not offset his falloff or how delicate he is. [/quote] There will always be at least 1 lane he can set behind. I guarantee it. IMO the best method with Shaco is to set one lane as far behind as possible. Abandon all others. If you get one kill on a guy, come back 5 more times in the next 3 minutes. legit.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=ZioSerpe] [[Rammus]] [/quote] Don't forget, he's good all game. He never falls off. [quote=ZioSerpe] [[Warwick]] I say it once again, he's very overlooked, but dat wolf is strong. [/quote] I agree. He's strong for a lot of good reasons, and he's good at jungling and he's a good damage soak. I wouldn't call him a tank though, he's just an initiate and a soak. Because WW has good initiate and pinning power, in my mind he's a tier 2 or tier 3. Otherwise he's out DPS'd by other junglers, and other tanky guys have better CC's. Not to mention, he has no AoE clear, slowing his early speed. Once he gets some razors though his clear is fast enough that it's fine. But his excellent ultimate and his amazing soak power do merit a tier 2 or 3 place.[/quote]