Serpe's Jungling Corner!

[quote=Macaco Velho]WHY FID TIER FOUR? D: Also, throw jungle Poppy in tier four. She's bad in lane and average in the jungle. I like her.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=Macaco Velho] WHY FID TIER FOUR? D: [/quote] [quote=lugignaf] Weak AoE early and terrible clear times. To make up for those terrible clear times, he has strong 6 ganks BUT it takes him so long to get there that, the lane he's trying to gank is already level 7 or 8. [/quote][/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe]I'm sorry to disappoint you people, but being my tier list I'm quite sure I'm pretty much allowed to decide wich parameters follow in it. I understand you might differ, but it's my tier list and as such is gonna be based on my point of view. [quote=ExamplePrime] Yeah I don't see why Moakai is so high There are much better junglers than him, he just happened to carry a tournament. And the list should be all about how quickly it can be cleared, how sustainable the champion is at all parts of the jungle, counter-jungling and how to recover from Being counter-jungled So yeah quite bluntly Moakai really shouldn't be that high, and you also make a commment about Cho being low because he is a better solo top, have you seen Maokai top? Cho'Gath clears fast, has strong sustain and can recover easily. The only problem is his ganks are a bit off but if you land the rupture then you're sorted. [/quote] Maokai has some major flaws as a solo top champion, cho'gath doesn't. If you go solo top as maokai and enemy has and high sustain champion there such as Yorick, Irelia, Nasus, warwick, renek and so on you're pretty much usless, they'll ignore you and farm, expecially nasus will be very happy to have you in his lane. [quote=Nighthawk] @Zio No... I did read what you typed. I realize apparently you said this is not JUST about tier list, ok, well you don't really have anything else up there atm, so it kinda is for people who already know how to jungle well and don't need your help. Shaco is definitely not better then Nocturne, lol...he has fast clear times and good ganks, that's it. He is extremely susceptible to counter jungling. Nocturne has fast clear times, just as good ganks pre-6 and much better ganks post 6, oh and he doesn't become a total retard lategame either. Also I want to clarify something for you. This is a [b]JUNGLE[/b] tier list. Every jungle tier list in the world goes solely on [b]JUNGLING[/b]. You have Malphite that low because he is a situational pick? Well bro, Shaco is shut down by hard CC just as much as Yi is. Also, Watch the Empire vs SK game and tell me Malphite is sooooo situational. Oh and Trundle...lol. He doesn't have insanely fast clear times anymore. It's not that his ganks + lategame scaling is bad, but Udyr, Nocturne, Cho, etc have faster clear times, good ganks and just as good if not better lategame scaling. Cho isn't 'much better' solo top, he has some problems, although he is very good. He is just as good in the jungle though if not better based on teamcomp and playstyle. I agree with Shyvana, but she can go in and kill the enemy jungler easily, which is why I like her being higher. [/quote] Shaco VS Nocturne Shaco is currently a little better than noc at every aspect: His early ganks are better, he clears a little faster, he counter Jungles better, and is not susceptible to counter jungle (I don't know ewhy you think he is). Both of them tend to fall a little lategame, with the dfference being Noc will become a tanky initiator, while shaco becomes a bursty offtank with excelent disruption on a teamfight, also while both has great spit pushing abilities lategame shaco has an edge on that too. So well, rite now the only thing noc does better than shaco is initiation. Trundle Only had 3 games with him after the rework of jungle, and he didn't seem to have gotten slower at jungling. Anyway I'll play him a bit more before the updating the tier list. Cho'Gath The way I now changed the tier list should make up for the fact he seemd low in the 1st version of it. Every champion in T3 is good as a jungler, yet all of them are better with a solo lane gold income as they all scale extremly well with items. That Said they're all Excellent jungler, but they don't make the best out of it as higher tier champions [quote=Lugignaf] @The "Malph is situational" argument... Look at Malphite and tell me what you see. I see someone with strong ganks pre and post level 6 because of the slow and initiate. He's also a jungle tank which is always welcomed. To top it off, he has AoE clearing. Something that all strong junglers should have. Only reason Shaco is supposedly better than Nocturne is early ganks. Also, recovery is this: If the enemy comes in to steal your creeps, it's how easily you shrug it off. Amumu in the old jungle? Terrible recovery because of how blue dependent he was. Still kinda is. Shyvana in both the old and new jungle? Great recovery because of her strong dueling power and fast camp clearing. Also, Nasus is easily tier 4. If he's not put solo top, he can easily get enough farm in the jungle and the ganks he brings are brutal. Fizz+Olaf tier 5... .-. Okay... Olaf was tier like.. 2 or 3 in Stonewall's tier list. That's only because he lacked sustain. Now that sustain is really a moot point, he's easily tier 2... or 3. Depends on how well you land that axe. Fizz, good clear times, again. The only issue I have with him is that he's stupidly macro intensive to optimize the route. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but it means you see bad ones more often than not. [/quote] Malphite what malphite has is something a lot of other junglers do, but against a AP heavy team why would you pick him? I'll have to play a bit of Olaf jungle in the next days, problem with him is that the amount of gold he needs is insane, and cannot go even near to it in the jungle, with more camps now I wanna see what gold averages he can reach. Yet with jungling gold averages I've encountred so far I doubt he's gonna make it. About Fizz, his solo lane advantages, expecially early, deeply outweight what he could be doing in the jungle, I see really no way why he should be jungled, but if you insist I'll give him< some jungle playtime and get back at you [quote=Trojan995] However, I'm surprised at maokai #1 jungle champion - Jatt himself said that Maokai falls off late game, and the only way he can redeem himself is by having a great early game. [/quote] Well if Jatt said so... I'm gonna be honest with you, Jatt is a very overrated jungler. He is a good jungler with his champs, but he has the smaller roster I've ever seen, his strengh is mostly on how he synergizes with his teammates rather than his own ability. Since he has a very small number of junglers he plays I'd rather not weight his opinion too much. That or Jatt is utter shit as a jungler and he has to thank wichever mercifull god gave him the luck of running into his teammates as without them he would never have been this popular.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk][quote=ZioSerpe] Shaco VS Nocturne Shaco is currently a little better than noc at every aspect: His early ganks are better, he clears a little faster, he counter Jungles better, and is not susceptible to counter jungle (I don't know ewhy you think he is). Both of them tend to fall a little lategame, with the dfference being Noc will become a tanky initiator, while shaco becomes a bursty offtank with excelent disruption on a teamfight, also while both has great spit pushing abilities lategame shaco has an edge on that too. So well, rite now the only thing noc does better than shaco is initiation.[/quote] Noooooo. Shaco is easily counter jungled just by popping boxes. Taking big wraith and golem also royally screws him up. Also, Shaco doesn't have excellent disruption in a teamfight, what? His boxes still don't prime fast enough imo. I suppose he can focus the carry relatively well though. [quote=Zioserpe]Cho'Gath The way I now changed the tier list should make up for the fact he seemd low in the 1st version of it. Every champion in T3 is good as a jungler, yet all of them are better with a solo lane gold income as they all scale extremly well with items. That Said they're all Excellent jungler, but they don't make the best out of it as higher tier champions [/quote] Alright, fair enough, but I think jungle Cho is just as viable in the jungle as top lane. Also. /facepalm Nasus is better in the jungle then in lane IMO. You can certainly have a lot of farm in the lane, but you can have just as much if not more (depending on lane) in the jungle. Also his ganks are super strong. If you are wondering how much farm you can get, I can get +300 on Q in 20 min while still ganking, counter jungling, and barely being in jungle, etc. Highest i've gotten is +700 in a 40 min game. Not only that, but you don't have to deal with any harassment, which makes life so much easier for a Nasus. Also, WW is basically shit in the new jungle IMO. Can't counter jungle, is susceptible to counter jungling, can't gank until 6, clear time is absolute shit...not even sure why he's not T5 yet alone T2. I think Olaf does better in the new jungle since he can get his gear pretty fast (idk how fast since I haven't tested) and clears camps like a baws. I realize this whole thing is your opinion, but sometimes it's up to us to tell you your opinion is wrong :3[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=jhoijhoi] Apparently Soraka jungle is top tier. [/quote] starcall OP[/quote]

[quote=Zeprido][quote=ZioSerpe] Tier 1: [[Maokai]], [[Udyr]], [[trundle]] & [[Shaco]], [[Nocturne]], [[rammus]], [[Skarner]], [[gangplank]], [[amumu]] Tier 2: [[Lee sin]], [[warwick]], [[shyvana]], [[volibear]], [[malphite]] Tier 3: [[tryndamere]], [[cho'gath]], [[Riven]], [[Jarvan IV]], [[pantheon]] Tier 4: [[Master Yi]], [[xin zhao]], [[fiddlesticks]], [[nunu]] Tier 5: [[taric]], [[Leona]], [[olaf]], [[irelia]], [[Talon]], [[akali]], [[Fizz]] [/quote] Critiques Doesn't show what ELO range you are aiming for with the tier list. I'm assuming low Elo however given that you have Shaco and Rammus in T1. Jarvan and Pantheon have both increased in strength with the new jungle, and should replace both Shyvana and Warwick in T2 since Shyvana lost her strength in the new jungle (fast clear time doesn't provide fast level 6 anymore) and Warwick is simply outclassed. Both should be T3. Master Yi has fast clear time, with a gap closer, decent duelist and ganks with red either burn SS or result in kills. T2 material, replace Volibear in T2, in old jungle Volibear would probably be T2, right now hes stronger as a solo top than in the jungle. Malphite is certainly high T2 material, maybe even low T1, he was always a solid jungler, however currently with his aoe, jungling is extremely strong and fast, and his level 6 ganks are among the best (burns summoners or results in kill). Chogath should be moved to T1 or high T2, has fast clear time once he gets rolling, can counter jungle effectively especially after level 6, with level 6 comes secure buffs, dragon, and baron. Things I strongly agree with Udyr, Maokai, and Trundle (strong invasion and CC ganks, as well as fast clear time, and clean transition to mid/late game role wise, pretty much everything you want in a jungler), Skarner. Not sure about due to personal lack of testing: Olaf, Tryndamere, Amumu, Irelia[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=ZioSerpe] Despite Riven being an excelent jungler she shines way better as a solo top champ right now, [/quote] I would just like to point out that a champion can be a Tier 1 jungle and a Tier 1 solo as well. (Even though I think Riven is kinda average as a solo.)[/quote]

[quote=Khazem][quote=Zeprido] Doesn't show what ELO range you are aiming for with the tier list. I'm assuming low Elo however given that you have Shaco and Rammus in T1. [/quote] Shaco and Rammus are definitely T1, not sure what Elo YOU are talking about o_o[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=ExamplePrime] Yeah I don't see why Moakai is so high There are much better junglers than him, he just happened to carry a tournament. [/quote] He carried it hard with swaggg and continues to do so. Clear speed is AoE and strong. Ganks are great. Ult is GodLike. (Always has been, and I've said it forever) Maokai deserves T1 imo. [quote=Nighthawk] Shaco is definitely not better then Nocturne, [/quote] Actually I think he is. This is more because Noc in my opinion is just a decent tier 2, almost even tier 3, and I think Shaco is a super strong tier 2 almost tier 1 at the moment. This rework and his very minor buffs have left him on the strong side. Never thought I'd see the day when Shaco is a terror. [quote=Nighthawk] Cho isn't 'much better' solo top, he has some problems, although he is very good. He is just as good in the jungle though if not better based on teamcomp and playstyle. I agree with Shyvana, but she can go in and kill the enemy jungler easily, which is why I like her being higher. [/quote] Cho is even better at jungling than he is at solo lane, I'm convinced. Shyv is perhaps one of the best jungles. A tier 1 pick imo. [quote=Lugignaf] Olaf was tier like.. 2 or 3 in Stonewall's tier list. [/quote] I would say jungle Olaf is probably tier 3. He jungles at a Tier 2 level but his gear dependency holds him back. [quote=ZioSerpe] Shaco VS Nocturne Shaco is currently a little better than noc at every aspect: [/quote] Do agree. [quote=ZioSerpe] Trundle Only had 3 games with him after the rework of jungle, and he didn't seem to have gotten slower at jungling. Anyway I'll play him a bit more before the updating the tier list. [/quote] Do agree. [quote=ZioSerpe] Cho'Gath The way I now changed the tier list should make up for the fact he seemd low in the 1st version of it. Every champion in T3 is good as a jungler, yet all of them are better with a solo lane gold income as they all scale extremly well with items. [/quote] Bad bad logic. If the champion jungles at a Tier 1 level, then he is a Tier 1 jungler. If he can also Solo top at a Tier 1 level, then he is a Tier 1 solo and a Tier 1 jungle. Gold in pocket is irrelevant. Janna is better with gold than Janna without gold, but you still support with her because she's good at it. Cho can solo and jungle. I think he's an even better jungle than he is a solo.[/quote]

[quote=Zeprido][quote=Khazem] [quote=Zeprido] Doesn't show what ELO range you are aiming for with the tier list. I'm assuming low Elo however given that you have Shaco and Rammus in T1. [/quote] Shaco and Rammus are definitely T1, not sure what Elo YOU are talking about o_o [/quote] Rammus is currently FotM again, strong ganks, good first clear, slows down later, if ganks are unsuccessful he has a hard time transitioning, very prone to counter jungling. Shaco has a strong early game, slow clear time and strong ganks. Both go no higher than T2 imo with Rammus MAYBE being low T1.[/quote]