Gold/10 Runes

[quote=DuffTime]Mathematically, they are sub par Functionally, on the right supports they can be quite good. The same way armor reds and blues can be good if you know when/why to take them, GP10 yellows and whatnot can be good too.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=lifebaka] (unless you mean something else by "pretty bad", in which case you need to elaborate).[/quote] Flat quints are generally way superior to scaling quints. In some of the comparisons I've made the GP10 quints only pass other runes after ~25-30min. [quote=Searz] You also need to account for the fact that gold needs inventory space to be of use while stat runes don't.[/quote] Unless all inventory slots are already full, I'm not sure that this is much of a concern. In the very late game, sure, stat quints are going to be better because there's nothing to use more gold for. But for the rest of the game, any differences are significantly less obvious.[/quote] Since most good quints are FLAT stats you can pretty much say that: stat quints are better early and late, but may be worse somewhere in the middle.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=DuffTime] Mathematically, they are sub par Functionally, on the right supports they can be quite good. The same way armor reds and blues can be good if you know when/why to take them, GP10 yellows and whatnot can be good too.[/quote] That's a bad way of putting it. GP10 seals are generally a lot weaker than other runes PERIOD. But they're ofc applicable in a suiting situation. For seals those situations are just very, very rare. Armor marks are generally much more applicable. So are GP10 quints. The thing about GP10 quints is that they are soooo versatile. They work in all situations, regardless of which support you play. Other quints may be stronger, but they're far from as versatile.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Health/MS aren't versatile? Because any champ can use them.^^[/quote]

[quote=lifebaka][quote=Searz] Flat quints are generally way superior to scaling quints. In some of the comparisons I've made the GP10 quints only pass other runes after ~25-30min. [i](Snip)[/i] Since most good quints are FLAT stats you can pretty much say that: stat quints are better early and late, but may be worse somewhere in the middle. [/quote] Again, I believe GP10 quints surpass flat quints a bit sooner than 25 minutes. Taking some relatively common flat quints as examples: [list] [*] [[Greater Quintessence of Alacrity]] is worth 92.242 gold; it takes until about 17:00 to generate this with GP10 quints. [*] [[Greater Quintessence of Fortitude]] is worth 67.86 gold; it takes until about 13:00 to generate this with GP10 quints. [*] [[Greater Quintessence of Potency]] is worth 100.4355 gold; it takes until about 18:30 to generate this with GP10 quints. [*] [[Greater Quintessence of Strength]] is worth 87.885 gold; it takes until about 16:30 to generate this with GP10 quints. [/list] Unless I've missed a realistic flat quint choice that's worth substantially more gold than the above, it seems that GP10 quints surpass them before the 20 minute mark of the game. I feel I oughta' state that I'm not really arguing that GP10 quints are great on everyone, though. I absolutely agree with: [quote=Searz] The thing about GP10 quints is that they are soooo versatile. They work in all situations, regardless of which support you play. Other quints may be stronger, but they're far from as versatile. [/quote] So I'm not claiming that GP10 quints are the best, but only that they're good and remain good (roughly) on pretty much everyone, and a comparable in gold value, or better, than other quints. Many champions would prefer something else in the quint slot, but GP10 quints are an excellent choice for general-purpose rune pages. Such as for poor summoners who main support and haven't had the time to buy other rune pages yet.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=lifebaka] [list] [*] [[Greater Quintessence of Alacrity]] is worth 92.242 gold; it takes until about 17:00 to generate this with GP10 quints. [*] [[Greater Quintessence of Fortitude]] is worth 67.86 gold; it takes until about 13:00 to generate this with GP10 quints. [*] [[Greater Quintessence of Potency]] is worth 100.4355 gold; it takes until about 18:30 to generate this with GP10 quints. [*] [[Greater Quintessence of Strength]] is worth 87.885 gold; it takes until about 16:30 to generate this with GP10 quints. [/list][/quote] Your calcs are off. You should always be using the basic tier items, not the higher ones. So [[amplifying tome]] makes for: 107.6625g and is passed at ~19:30. Still earlier than I remembered. I guess I remembered wrong. My bad. [quote]So I'm not claiming that GP10 quints are the best, but only that they're good and remain good (roughly) on pretty much everyone, and a comparable in gold value, or better, than other quints. Many champions would prefer something else in the quint slot, but GP10 quints are an excellent choice for general-purpose rune pages. Such as for poor summoners who main support and haven't had the time to buy other rune pages yet.[/quote] GP10 quints are good for general purpose support quints, but that's really the only place you can use them. Most other champions need flat quints for winning their lanes.[/quote]

[quote=Zoki]I think that GP/10 are awesome on supports and I use them aswell. Like said, they beat other flat quints at about 20min mark in worth, and that is surrender point so game can't even end before them.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=Searz] [quote=DuffTime] Mathematically, they are sub par Functionally, on the right supports they can be quite good. The same way armor reds and blues can be good if you know when/why to take them, GP10 yellows and whatnot can be good too.[/quote] That's a bad way of putting it. GP10 seals are generally a lot weaker than other runes PERIOD. But they're ofc applicable in a suiting situation. For seals those situations are just very, very rare. Armor marks are generally much more applicable. So are GP10 quints. The thing about GP10 quints is that they are soooo versatile. They work in all situations, regardless of which support you play. Other quints may be stronger, but they're far from as versatile. [/quote] So mathematically sub par, functionally applicable on supports? Cool.[/quote]

[quote=lifebaka][quote=Searz] Your calcs are off. You should always be using the basic tier items, not the higher ones. So [[amplifying tome]] makes for: 107.6625g and is passed at ~19:30. Still earlier than I remembered. I guess I remembered wrong. My bad. [/quote] I've actually been using an average of all basic tier items, instead of just the cheapest, where there are multiple. This pulls the gold value per point of a stat down slightly, since more expensive basic items usually give better stat/gold ratios; this accounts for the roughly seven gold difference in our calculations. I suppose I could re-run my stat value calculations for early game (using cheap basic items), mid game (using mid-valued basic items), and late game (using expensive basic items), but I'm not sure if it'd really be a better model that way. Either modeling method would have its pros and cons. [quote=Searz] Most other champions need flat quints for winning their lanes. [/quote] I'd possibly say "want" instead of "need", because I believe player skill has more to do with winning or losing a lane than quint choice, but I agree, other quints are superior on pretty much every champion. I also think that GP10 quints are better at lower levels of play, when your opponents might not be able to capitalize on the edge other quints give them.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=lifebaka] I've actually been using an average of all basic tier items, instead of just the cheapest, where there are multiple.[/quote] Not all stats have mid tier items (and most have very different values). So for a balanced overall value it's better to just go with the basic ones. [quote=lifebaka] [quote=Searz] Most other champions need flat quints for winning their lanes.[/quote] I'd possibly say "want" instead of "need", because I believe player skill has more to do with winning or losing a lane than quint choice, but I agree, other quints are superior on pretty much every champion. I also think that GP10 quints are better at lower levels of play, when your opponents might not be able to capitalize on the edge other quints give them.[/quote] Yea, pretty much.[/quote]