A Flash Free Season Three!

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=XeresAce] The meta revolves around flash, would be interesting to see how it would go without it tbh :3 BUT, id definitely miss having a free out of jail free card, or at-least some mobility on ashe or varus. Heck, without it playing galio/sona/ heck even amumu would be a pain in the ass :3 [/quote] Just go without it for a game or 10 - 20. It's a very interesting experience for me so far.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Lugignaf] [quote=NicknameMy] Instead of [[Flash]] there could be a different summoner spell called "Dash". Every spell which is like [[flash]] will be reworked into a dash. And no dash should be able to go through walls. This would still give those cc-champs a way to get into teamfights but disable the problem of wallhopping and instant flashing. [/quote] What's that? You want to create less opportunity for plays? Great idea! I'll just tell Lee Sin he's worthless as a jungler now as well as Ezreal being knocked back to near-uselessness. Kat can't save herself because you're not allowed to shunpo through walls anymore? I guess she's kinda terrible now too. You can't turn flashes into dashes. It changes the entire mechanic of the champion. [/quote] [[Arcane Shift]] and [[Shunpo]] are regarded as blinks. Just sayin'[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Shuru] I'm surprised this thread went so long. I see a lot of stuff about getting rid of flash (making the meta cry), changing flashes mechanics (making the meta cry), changing its range again (making it worthless: IE making the meta cry) and overall making the meta cry. To make a point i want to look at some champions. point A: [[Galio]] Galio wants to use his ult, but every time he walks into a team and tries to pop his ult, [[elise]] hits him with cocoon, then ammumu with bandage toss, and here comes vayne with the condemn and alistar with pulverise before he can get in range to get more than their malphite in range, and while galios out everyone zones in on the enemy team and wins the 5-4 exchange. Solution? flash. Flash is fast enough for Galio to get in and use his ultimate before the train of CC can hit him, getting all 5 enemies in his ultimate lets his friendly Malphite keep everyone in line shortly after. point B: [[Sivir]] Sivir wants to run but as soon as she pops her ultimate vayne tumbles and condemns her into a wall. She comes out with 200 HP and nowhere to run. she dies shortly after the stun comes off. Solution? As soon as the stun wears off she flashes the wall and escapes while her support gives vayne hell for making the move, sivir survives in a clutch save that would have otherwise been failed by someone who didn't understand flashes mechanics and the stun duration on Condemn. point C: anyone with a built-in [[flash]] You're vayne, you want to kill ezreal. He's running from you and he teleports over the wall. Well that sucks, what are you going to do? you miss a kill on this ezreal. Solution? check your map, is there anyone you can't account for? no? well you guessed it. flash after him! if you are sure you can get the kill on Ezreal (IE he doesn't have phage or Tforce) and he's low enough to take out with a condemn, I mean he just flashed into the jungle right? piece of cake. Now lets look at these three simple points. How many parts of these are at all noobish? Galio just didn't want to get CCed to death, what if his malphite used his ult in the last fight and it wasn't up? maybe they didn't have a way to initiate other than galio, and if they didn't the enemy team would clean up. So galio needed flash to do something. Sivir just wants to live, she didn't make any big mistake, she was by a wall she could flash over, in bottom late thats only by your tower or theirs. Maybe she wasn't making mistakes, and was just at her tower and needed to run. so she flashed over the wall after a condemn in a save that in any other situation woulda cost her her life. Vaynes just chasing ezreal, she knows where everyone is, they're all accounted for, what's the problem with chasing him if he doesn't have phage to kite? [/quote] Point A Possible Solution: After a [[Flash]] removal/rework give [[Galio]] cc reduction/knockback immunity on his [[Bulwark]]. Point B: I thought [[Sivir]] had a [[spell shield]] to block that [[condemn]]? This is an example on how [[Flash]] would solve that bad play. You could flip it around and say that Vayne made a great play which then got fucked over by [[Flash]]. Point C: Actually your point isn't anything at all just like point B. If you solve Ez's [[Arcane Shift]] by [[Flash]], how are you going to make up for his [[Flash]]?[/quote]

[quote=Shuru]I personally run ghost on ezreal, I never need two escapes, reason being? I don't make dumb plays. as for vayne, I wouldn't DIVE as vayne without my support, that's stupid as hell, maybe the support janna popped the spell shield, or something like that. CC reduction still wouldn't be enough time for Galio to get his ult off and make a difference, it only would take 1 second for half the team to get out of his range.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Shuru] I personally run ghost on ezreal, I never need two escapes, reason being? I don't make dumb plays. as for vayne, I wouldn't DIVE as vayne without my support, that's stupid as hell, maybe the support janna popped the spell shield, or something like that. CC reduction still wouldn't be enough time for Galio to get his ult off and make a difference, it only would take 1 second for half the team to get out of his range. [/quote] With [[Ghost]] + Shift he should be able to get out. Nevertheless 99% runs [[Flash]] on almost everyone because it's almost mandatory to do so. There was never stated this was a dive, besides the [[Spell shield]] can be timed to block the [[condemn]]. Perhaps [[Galio]] would just require a rework with a build-in [[Flash]]/[[Dash]] on his ultimate like Fiddle's [[Crowstorm]]. To be fair I think it's quite bad design that [[Galio]] [b]needs[/b] [[Flash]] to be effective.[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]To make everyone aware (because this thread seems to avoid it entirely) Riot creates champions with SOME ideas in mind of how players will use them, then high level players improvise even more ways to use what they have. Galieo wasn't designed to specifically "work without Flash" but players recognized how useful Flash+[[Idol of Durand]] was as an instant initiation. All of a sudden Flash became an extremely strong summoner to use in conjunction with Galieo.. These suggestions to change kits to make room for a "flashless" League of Legends seems to ignore a key component in champions...Their THEME DESIGN. There are multiple champs that would lose their identity or a part of it if they all of a sudden got compensated for not having Flash. This thread is becoming more and more useless. I'd really just prefer if it got closed so we can end this circle jerk of "Flash shouldn't be removed" versus "IGNORE LOGICAL ARGUEMENTS AND KEEP SHOUTING FLASH IS BAD MMKKKKK"[/quote]

[quote=Kazega]Flash is one of the few things that Riot does to make this game "N00b Friendly." I say this because I once made an argument a while back that Riot tunes this game to high level play. If I had to guess, 90% of the balances are done to better equalize tournament play. Flash is the one thing at just about any level that can amount to a "get out of jail free" card. And I am guessing this is the main reason for people hating on it. Taking away flash takes away a fair bit of the dynamic that comes to learning the game of League of Legends. Instead of a frustrating death, the player burns a summoner spell and can't use it again for 3 minutes. Eventually it starts to click in players, provided they are actually trying to learn and not just in it for the fun of it, that players recognize when flashes are used and take advantage of it as much as possible. This begins to put flash in the "first aid" section of the summoner spells with cleanse and Heal, with the expression "'tis better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it" coming to mind In my earlier days, i opted not to use flash. I found it to be a crutch at my experience level and I didn't see the point of it is I played Katarina a lot and thought Shunpo was just as good. Now I still Play Kat religiously and I use flash a lot more because of the utility it gives me. Riot has been looking over summoner spells, and undoubtedly keeping tabs on complaints on them. Flash is fine because Riot says it is fine. If they change it up for Season 3, they will tell us and start testing possible "fixes" for the "problems." Maybe they will find that Flash is too powerful, or that it isn't even needed at all. I don't know for sure, but until then be happy that you got it, and the option to use something else if you so desire. To me what this thread has become is a pissing match. Which side will say the same things over and over and over again until someone finally caves, more likely a Mod locks this thread. Nothing has been added to either side of the argument for a long time now. Both sides had valid points until they were driven into the ground and repeated nonstop.[/quote]

[quote=Arcana3]Sooooo GM, you never used flash to get out of bad plays? You seem to be against flash cause you just hate it[/quote]

[quote=EvilDice]this entire game is balanced around flash... it's just stupid to expect the removal of flash to go smoothly.. it would take months and months of balance for overall less exciting gameplay. yes. i said LESS exciting. flash is a get out of fail free card which allows you to play more agressive in lane and make bigger plays. removing flash makes laning much more conservative, boring, and linear, as well as greatly reducing the strength of combo champs (galio, sona, amumu, etc) that rely on flash to be effective. also please stop using the argument that it is a "noob" summoner spell and is "easy" to use. or, please point out to me a summoner spell that you consider "pro" and "hard" to use. it's a part of the game now and its never going away[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]the thing is if you know that guy on the other team has flash and he uses it just catch him in a bad spot again and know his flash is on CD[/quote]