Shuru wrote:
One main problem I see with this.
I play every day, I win majority of my matches, and carry many of them. I don't play ranked. what about players like me?
Rankeds are just like normals except with more stress and more tryharding. I can understand why people dont like them but if you actually belong at lets say 1600 ELO you will get there soonish.
I was born nude but now i am dude
thataznkid95
<Member>
<Member>
Nighthawk wrote:
oh this is for normal voting = bad idea LOL.
I disagree. Sure, it would feed their egotism, however I don't see a whole lot of kids who are going '1111i'msogoodeveryoneelsesuckslolololnoob***gosuckyourmoms****' and if there are people like that, we don't have to give them any more votes at all, I actually don't think there's anyone on Mobafire like this whose high elo. I also don't see how this would make low elo's opinion pointless, ultimately this is a site for them, and they also outnumber the high elo's by about 300000 lol. Guides are still likely to get bandwagon'd by low elo people who think the guide is good, but with this system it would still be possible to counter act that, currently right now there's zero way to do so.
As for high elo people downvoting the **** out of a guide they don't like, well I think we can agree that hypothetically speaking it would also be possible for me to become a Jedi tomorrow and quit mobafire cause I'm to busy saving lives. Just because it could happen doesn't mean it will. I don't think it would ever happen anyways, and it would be pretty easy to spot if it did happen. Personally though I have a bit more trust in our high elo community then that.
And with high elo people, I don't think troll votes would really ever happen. Anyone who is high elo and is active on Mobafire knows enough to explain why they voted on a guide, from what i've seen.
I respectfully disagree. You have no evidence nor any supporting evidence to back up your claims. Just mere "good feeling", for a lack of a better word. This system would make low elo opinion pointless because their votes would not be worth as much and thereby "being worth less than another".
The community would be forced to work 3x as hard just counter a bad vote. How do you suppose we could counter act this if the voting system were to be in place? On average a guide will get around 4~10 votes per ever 1000 viewers. Do you realize how much 3 votes is at that point?
Your remark about becoming a Jedi was amusing, but not realistic, lets be serious here. Even though there are high elo players who help others they're just as equal amount of those who vote and dont leave comments. You're simply relying on information that you've seen and not consider the ones you cant.
ex. If I voted then it also must be true that I commented!
thataznkid95 wrote:
I respectfully disagree. You have no evidence nor any supporting evidence to back up your claims. Just mere "good feeling", for a lack of a better word. This system would make low elo opinion pointless because their votes would not be worth as much and thereby "being worth less than another".
The community would be forced to work 3x as hard just counter a bad vote. How do you suppose we could counter act this if the voting system were to be in place? On average a guide will get around 4~10 votes per ever 1000 viewers. Do you realize how much 3 votes is at that point?
Your remark about becoming a Jedi was amusing, but not realistic, lets be serious here. Even though there are high elo players who help others they're just as equal amount of those who vote and dont leave comments. You're simply relying on information that you've seen and not consider the ones you cant.
ex. If I voted then it also must be true that I commented!
Maybe add that the players voting -3, +3 or -5, +5(i think +3 and -3 works better since 5 is a big number) should have to comment to send their BIG vote, otherwise they can just cast 1 vote like normally.
thataznkid95 wrote:
The community would be forced to work 3x as hard just counter a bad vote. How do you suppose we could counter act this if the voting system were to be in place? On average a guide will get around 4~10 votes per ever 1000 viewers. Do you realize how much 3 votes is at that point?
Especially if they needed to leave a comment, i dont think this would be such a big problem since there are maybe 8 platinum players on mobafire.
I was born nude but now i am dude
jhoijhoi wrote:
Just saying, if you have a problem with a top rated guide, PM the author or comment in the comment section.
If they don't alter the guide based on your MIGHTY HIGH ELO suggestions, make your own guide.
If they do make changes due to positive feedback, you can pat yourself on the head for making MobaFire a better place without the elitism.
If a guide site has no high level opinion its reputation will be horrible, leading to a smaller amount of players joining.
I was born nude but now i am dude
thataznkid95
<Member>
<Member>
Quoted:
Maybe add that the players voting -3, +3 or -5, +5(i think +3 and -3 works better since 5 is a big number) should have to comment to send their BIG vote, otherwise they can just cast 1 vote like normally.
This would be an interesting idea, I'll extend on this. This could possibly be viable if the length of the comment left was longer (longer then length the more value it holds max:2~3). Of course it would need something that detects gibberish and excessive use of certain techniques that makes it seem longer.
jhoijhoi wrote:
Just saying, if you have a problem with a top rated guide, PM the author or comment in the comment section.
If they don't alter the guide based on your MIGHTY HIGH ELO suggestions, make your own guide.
If they do make changes due to positive feedback, you can pat yourself on the head for making MobaFire a better place without the elitism.
I'm afraid I don't see you with...100ish champion guides is it now? Clearly that won't always work. :P
@Asian
No evidence? There's no evidence for what you're saying either. I'm not sure how long you've been lurking on Mobafire, and I'm glad to see you're getting involved in the community, but having been here for a very long time I can say with 100% certainty that I've never seen our members collude to go out of their way and trollvote 1 guide in a group.
Low elo members will STILL have more impact on a guide then high elo people, like I said there are a LOT more low elo people then high, and 99% of the votes on a guide come from low elo people. In fact even if all 5 high elo people voted on 1 guide it still wouldn't take that much to counter act that based on how many people there are on the site. There are not many high elo players on this site in the first place.
SickMotion, Lustboy, Captain Jack, Staafmixer, RapidStar, vVv Anaxamander, GamersLegends, Wintermond, SychoSid.
Of those people, you know who reliably comments on guides? Wintermond. And Wintermond recently quit League, so basically none of them.
If I lower it down to 2k, the list also includes oxide110, FFNOLiMiTZ, EvilDice, Incapitate, Elementz, Xaioli and Icefire5665.
Of those only 3-4 of those are active.
You really think 5 people are going to downvote a bunch of guides?
I think also I can trust high elo people when they say a guide is bad, maybe if they downvote a guide you know, it deserves to be downvoted eh. If you look at it the other way 3 votes is also a lot to upvote.
1. I don't even think your idea would make an impact because the amount of unrated people vs. the amount of rated people that vote on the site.
2. It's against the spirit of the site
If your guide and build is good and well explained so that new players can understand it you should be able to get enough votes, and you should get more votes from experienced players because those players won't vote for the "bad" guides. I know it's harder to get more votes than popular people on the site simply because they have more people to show their guide to, but I think that problem resides in increasing views to guides besides the #1 guide and not just giving some people more voting power.
We have already implemented ELO Verification and have a "High ELO Authors" tab on the front page (which by the way is the only filter besides New guides on the front page at the moment). This has given high ELO authors a LOT more views on their guides. These changes are already pretty different from our past guide policies and I think this is already giving high ELO players power on the site without giving them extra votes.
While it still automatically displays guides by whoever has the highest score when you click on a champ portrait it's a lot easier for high ELO guides to get high scores now that they have a lot more visibility and therefore more votes.
If you care more about high ELO member's opinions you can simply use the high ELO tab on the front page or use the ELO filter in guide browsing to find high ELO guides. I feel like this is already a solution to the problem you have.
If we don't allow unrated authors at shot at the #1 guide spot then why would they even make a guide? As thataznkid said it would be very demoralizing to the MAJORITY of users of this site. Similarly if people feel like the site sees their contributions (votes) as less important than others that will also be hurting the majority of users on the site. In a way their votes are more important because typically they are the ones with the most to learn and can give the best indicator of whether or not they learned enough from a guide.
Also, we are aware that the scout system is not working and are working on changing that. We have been talking with the Vets but haven't 100% decided on anything / had time to implement the changes yet.
2. It's against the spirit of the site
If your guide and build is good and well explained so that new players can understand it you should be able to get enough votes, and you should get more votes from experienced players because those players won't vote for the "bad" guides. I know it's harder to get more votes than popular people on the site simply because they have more people to show their guide to, but I think that problem resides in increasing views to guides besides the #1 guide and not just giving some people more voting power.
We have already implemented ELO Verification and have a "High ELO Authors" tab on the front page (which by the way is the only filter besides New guides on the front page at the moment). This has given high ELO authors a LOT more views on their guides. These changes are already pretty different from our past guide policies and I think this is already giving high ELO players power on the site without giving them extra votes.
While it still automatically displays guides by whoever has the highest score when you click on a champ portrait it's a lot easier for high ELO guides to get high scores now that they have a lot more visibility and therefore more votes.
If you care more about high ELO member's opinions you can simply use the high ELO tab on the front page or use the ELO filter in guide browsing to find high ELO guides. I feel like this is already a solution to the problem you have.
If we don't allow unrated authors at shot at the #1 guide spot then why would they even make a guide? As thataznkid said it would be very demoralizing to the MAJORITY of users of this site. Similarly if people feel like the site sees their contributions (votes) as less important than others that will also be hurting the majority of users on the site. In a way their votes are more important because typically they are the ones with the most to learn and can give the best indicator of whether or not they learned enough from a guide.
Also, we are aware that the scout system is not working and are working on changing that. We have been talking with the Vets but haven't 100% decided on anything / had time to implement the changes yet.
Thanks to GrandMasterD for my sig!
thataznkid95
<Member>
<Member>
Nighthawk wrote:
I'm afraid I don't see you with...100ish champion guides is it now? Clearly that won't always work. :P
@Asian
No evidence? There's no evidence for what you're saying either. I'm not sure how long you've been lurking on Mobafire, and I'm glad to see you're getting involved in the community, but having been here for a very long time I can say with 100% certainty that I've never seen our members collude to go out of their way and trollvote 1 guide in a group.
Low elo members will STILL have more impact on a guide then high elo people, like I said there are a LOT more low elo people then high, and 99% of the votes on a guide come from low elo people. In fact even if all 5 high elo people voted on 1 guide it still wouldn't take that much to counter act that based on how many people there are on the site. There are not many high elo players on this site in the first place.
SickMotion, Lustboy, Captain Jack, Staafmixer, RapidStar, vVv Anaxamander, GamersLegends, Wintermond, SychoSid.
Of those people, you know who reliably comments on guides? Wintermond. And Wintermond recently quit League, so basically none of them.
If I lower it down to 2k, the list also includes oxide110, FFNOLiMiTZ, EvilDice, Incapitate, Elementz, Xaioli and Icefire5665.
Of those only 3-4 of those are active.
You really think 5 people are going to downvote a bunch of guides?
I think also I can trust high elo people when they say a guide is bad, maybe if they downvote a guide you know, it deserves to be downvoted eh. If you look at it the other way 3 votes is also a lot to upvote.
Well I thought I made it plainly obvious but I guess not everyone can see it. My evidence is history. Think about it. It is within human nature to abuse power once they have it. That was the whole point of my American history reference, but idk I guess you like to argue for the sake of arguing if you dont like to read closely. After this point has been made clear everything you've said falls apart when you dont take into consideration for the points I have made. You seem to think so highly of high elo people on this site I mean I guess we should just go all out and trust that people dont screw up, yup sounds like a plan/ sarcasm. For the love of all that is logical I said "hypothetically" to avoid this kind stupid argument. Please if you're going to make a pointless argument understand where the other person is coming from otherwise you're just adding oil to the fire
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I play every day, I win majority of my matches, and carry many of them. I don't play ranked. what about players like me?