My ideas on a new scouting system

[quote=oxide110][quote=PsiGuard] [quote=jhoijhoi] [quote=PsiGuard] That's the thing the admins want to keep, rather than just adopting solomid's guide filtration which clearly works better than ours. [/quote] How is it better? I'm genuinely curious. I don't visit Solomid and don't care to. [/quote] Pretty simple in theory though in practice it's respectably complex. Solomid mods choose Approved guides based on pretty strict criteria based on the completeness of the guide and the author's credentials. You have to have at least 100 ranked games with the champion or something. They also require you to have a minimum set of chapters that cover build and gameplay. This means the only Approved guides are from players very experienced with their champions and who have taken the time to write a pretty comprehensive guide. Featured guides are basically just from pros. If you are diamond 3 or above you can apply for your guide to be Featured. The criteria are fairly similar but not as harsh as Approved guides. I guess that's because they want the people who don't have a super high soloqueue rating to put a lot of serious effort into their guide in order to get it Approved. Basically the mods decide which guides get the most views. There are votes, but there's no hierarchy or top guide that the community votes into place. The guides that pass mod inspection get the vast majority of views. This means you get quality guides (though sometimes no updated ones >.>), but the community at large has nothing to do with it. [/quote] I was a guide mod at one time, user ranking,elo,account name,champion games has nothing to do with the approval process. Approved guides basically cover the basic, skills stats runes masteries, early, mid,late, tips and tricks and done. As long as stuff is talked about it gets approved, there is also a certain amount of characters you have to reach to apply for approval.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]Basically I just want to have the chance to get a few scouts with me, who are just as motivated as I am, and get to work with them. It's not like I'm begging to get scout rights or w/e, I just want to reform the system so something starts happening out there again.[/quote]

[quote=Meiyjhe][quote=Vynertje] Basically I just want to have the chance to get a few scouts with me, who are just as motivated as I am, and get to work with them. It's not like I'm begging to get scout rights or w/e, I just want to reform the system so something starts happening out there again. [/quote] A few months ago I'd love to join you, but reviewing gets boring after a while (since scouting must be done by a reason, thus you should read the guide carefully, you need to review the guides). Right now, I myself will not join you for the very reason that I find it boring. I am sure you will be able to find four or five people that are quite motivated to review a lot of guides, but they also need to both know what they are talking about, which is also a problem. You will basically need a few scouts that are motivated, have a lot of time and have LoL + guidewriting experience. And every few months, those scouts will no longer be motivated, so you will need new ones. It will be quite a search, and getting those scouts itself is already a job that takes a lot of time. I still do like your idea, because if you WOULD find people that actually are willing to do stuff, it will make the whole scout point idea more reliable. But the problem of getting those scouts is still a problem, and it easier to just let the people who have done a lot for mobafire, will be able to share their opinion on guides, by scouting. This will of course not always be reliable, I myself did not always make the best reviews, but it is the best system we got so far :P[/quote]

[quote=Bioalchemist]^ this is the point I made. difficult to motivate people to just give a massive amount of their time and only really receive personal satisfaction in return. [quote=PsiGuard] Featured guides are basically just from pros. If you are diamond 3 or above you can apply for your guide to be Featured. The criteria are fairly similar but not as harsh as Approved guides. I guess that's because they want the people who don't have a super high soloqueue rating to put a lot of serious effort into their guide in order to get it Approved. [/quote] this seems interesting...the thing I have struggled with since coming to moba and seeing other guide sites is what really motivates guide writers? I mean why would someone on solomid apply to have their guide featured? what is in it for them? same thing for putting in a ton of time to make a great guide on moba...yeah you will get recognition from the community and personal satisfaction that you are helping people but how far can that really go before you get tired of it? seriously...the pros get paid for their guides..the rest of the community does not...is that really fair? I mean I have seen non-pro guides that are FAR better than the pro guides....and ultimately the owners/employees of the sites reap all the benefits not the community writers. just seems crazy that people would really take the time to make awesome guides consistently. maybe I just lack motivation for something that only returns personal satisfaction...maybe because as I have gotten older I know that time is money....who knows...but this still just rubs me wrong.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=PsiGuard] I don't remember voting whether the united states would be a democracy or not either. Funny how that works. You say you want people to vote on a new system. For one, you're putting your trust in the same pool of people that's responsible for shitty guides being upvoted. Two, permanent C2V is often requested by quite a few members of the community and most people seem confused as to why it isn't in place. This feature was responsible for some of the worst score inflation and essentially a majority of Mobafire's bad reputation. And people want it back for some reason. So basically we've established that the Mobafire community isn't capable of making all the decisions because quite frankly a lot of people are stupid. That's why we have admins structure the site and decide on what improvements and changes to make. The future of Mobafire affects them a lot more than us. I also find it hilarious that you're supporting a dictatorial approach to scout election in the name of democracy. Instead of having a hundred people support a community member's promotion, you'd rather have one person just pick a bunch of people. I hope you see the irony there. Also, nothing is "bringing us down as a guide site." Mobafire has had problems with guide quality for a long, long time. It has still grown to be the biggest League of Legends community there is. No other fan site compares in size. Mobafire has improved a lot over the couple years I've been around, including the foundation of the very scout system we're discussing. The reason why Mobafire is so successful is that it places a lot of power in the hands of the average member. Anyone can write a top guide, anyone can cast their vote on other guides. Everyone matters. That's the thing the admins want to keep, rather than just adopting solomid's guide filtration which clearly works better than ours. I don't mean to flip out at you but when you paint the admins of this site as a bunch of devious dictators, it's just disrespectful and ungrateful. If you really thought that, you wouldn't bother sticking around. This isn't a country, it's a website which you're free to leave at any time. Obviously they're doing something right. I don't agree with all of the staff's decisions but they care a lot more about the community than you seem to think. [/quote] Jesus........ never have I seen joe absolutely demolish someone in such sequential fashion[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]@ Bioalchemist: A good way to make money (without requiring anything from MobaFire) is to add video's to your guide. The vids I made for my guides have been watched over 130k - which can make good youtube money :)[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=oxide110] [quote=PsiGuard] [quote=jhoijhoi] [quote=PsiGuard] That's the thing the admins want to keep, rather than just adopting solomid's guide filtration which clearly works better than ours. [/quote] How is it better? I'm genuinely curious. I don't visit Solomid and don't care to. [/quote] Pretty simple in theory though in practice it's respectably complex. Solomid mods choose Approved guides based on pretty strict criteria based on the completeness of the guide and the author's credentials. You have to have at least 100 ranked games with the champion or something. They also require you to have a minimum set of chapters that cover build and gameplay. This means the only Approved guides are from players very experienced with their champions and who have taken the time to write a pretty comprehensive guide. Featured guides are basically just from pros. If you are diamond 3 or above you can apply for your guide to be Featured. The criteria are fairly similar but not as harsh as Approved guides. I guess that's because they want the people who don't have a super high soloqueue rating to put a lot of serious effort into their guide in order to get it Approved. Basically the mods decide which guides get the most views. There are votes, but there's no hierarchy or top guide that the community votes into place. The guides that pass mod inspection get the vast majority of views. This means you get quality guides (though sometimes no updated ones >.>), but the community at large has nothing to do with it. [/quote] I was a guide mod at one time, user ranking,elo,account name,champion games has nothing to do with the approval process. Approved guides basically cover the basic, skills stats runes masteries, early, mid,late, tips and tricks and done. As long as stuff is talked about it gets approved, there is also a certain amount of characters you have to reach to apply for approval. [/quote] My bad, I must have pulled the 100 games part from the qualifications to have an "Extensive" guide. Though for the record, there is this: "If a player has 30 games with a champion, and a 70% win rate, we are not as likely to approve that content, because the data spread is simply too low for that person regardless of skill, to properly educate the community on that champion." -[url=http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=35596-slater-von-j-ger-generic-build-guide]source[/url] Also I'm not 100% sure about the diamond 3 part for featured guides. The last confirmed figure I saw was 2100 elo but I'm not sure where the cutoff is in the new league system.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]2k elo is about diamond 3, so that would make sense.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=Vynertje] 2k elo is about diamond 3, so that would make sense. [/quote] I'm not too sure about that. In LoLKing Points (which is supposed to line up with elo), it's about mid plat 3. I was also 1800 elo right before the switch to leagues and was placed in plat V. I think diamond is a fair bit higher than 2k.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]Oh nevermind, i actually mixed up platinum and diamond :D[/quote]