Season 4 Support Discussion

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]her passive now makes any healing (mana or health) she does return 1% more for every 2% the target is missing starcall's MR debuff has an AP ratio astral blessing is getting the base heal nerfed, but the armor buff is better (and doesn't last as long) infuse now gives 5% of her mana + the base...but still has no cost to use offensively wish is getting the mana cost lowered, but the base heal nerfed don't remember all the specifics on that[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]o.o Sounds like good changes, really. At the same time, eugh. I like to top off my ADC's health whenever I can. Now it sounds like I should wait a little before W'ing.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64][quote=Pheyniex] it's not like i don't know what a [[Zilean]] is, nor i've never seen people playing it very well. My argument stands. [/quote] your argument is basically "zilean is useless if zilean uses his ult incorrectly" which is pretty obvious, and the hit and run thing you said, i said you could just get a control mage or utility jungler to peel for your adc zileans real problem is his lack of hard cc, not the fact that there are people that use his ult incorrectly lol i just know im actually going to be using support zilean since ive always loved using him and his revive ult [quote=jhoijhoi] o.o Sounds like good changes, really. At the same time, eugh. I like to top off my ADC's health whenever I can. Now it sounds like I should wait a little before W'ing. [/quote] theyre changing it so its only really "worth" healing when theyre at 40% hp, theyre trying to change her into more of a clutch healer rather than a foreversustain champion[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]she always worked better as a clutch healer >_> astral blessing's CD is way too long to just sit there and use it every time it's off CD. If you wanna do that, play Nami...Eb and Flow is more mana efficient and the cooldown is more reasonable.[/quote]

[quote=Pheyniex][quote=DillButt64]your argument is basically "zilean is useless if zilean uses his ult incorrectly"[/quote] my argument is "why pick a champion for 1 skill when you can pick another for 5 skills?" either way, there are much better options. I'm sure that if you have plenty of success with him has more to do with people having no idea what he does, rather than him being good. [quote=DillButt64] which is pretty obvious, and the hit and run thing you said, i said you could just get a control mage or utility jungler to peel for your adc[/quote] hence my "he makes ammends, not provide strategic options". Besides, you are limiting your team's options already in champselect? [quote=DillButt64] not the fact that there are people that use his ult incorrectly lol [/quote] this was never part of my statement and i'm sorry you end up assuming it. repeatedly.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=The_Nameless_Bard] she always worked better as a clutch healer >_> astral blessing's CD is way too long to just sit there and use it every time it's off CD. If you wanna do that, play Nami...Eb and Flow is more mana efficient and the cooldown is more reasonable. [/quote] Or Sona's W for that matter.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64][quote=Pheyniex] my argument is "why pick a champion for 1 skill when you can pick another for 5 skills?" either way, there are much better options. I'm sure that if you have plenty of success with him has more to do with people having no idea what he does, rather than him being good. [/quote] probably because having an extra life is amazing? remember the GA meta? also like i said zilean also has a 55% slow/haste, he has his passive making it so your lanes can hit level 2 faster (i left this out since theyre going to be changing it soon like with jannas passive) and i said before time bombs also hurt if you have ap [quote=Pheyniex] hence my "he makes ammends, not provide strategic options". Besides, you are limiting your team's options already in champselect? [/quote] dont you limit your teams options when you pick nidalee? since she has no cc? also how is baiting out a bruiser or assassin into your adc only for you to ult your adc before he dies not strategic? yes his ult being an extra life gives amends* but so does flash, yet people use it in almost every game [quote=Pheyniex] this was never part of my statement and i'm sorry you end up assuming it. repeatedly. [/quote] im assuming it because you said zileans problem is that hes only effective if people blindly attack the person you ult, which i said is why you use his ult as a clutch thing, which is how one would correctly use it, and either way having people not focus on your adc for a few seconds is still worth it anyways even if they dont die[/quote]

[quote=Pheyniex]extra life is useless if you end up dead in the next 0.5 seconds. you stay at mercy of whoever is around you. if that means that your apc finaly did its job and left 5 teammembers for the adc to pcik up, fine. I just don't see that happening. glad to know that you would, in you best ability, pick support [[Nidalee]]. I'm sure i wouldn't, not in such a serious manner. Much less [[Zilean]]. Not against capable players. there is a difference between [[Flash]] and [[Chrono Shift]]. one gains distance, other leaves you at mercy of whatever is around. zilean is only for winning lanes. not more, not less. you can't assume he won't be focused while ultied, nor that you can actually take advantage of the revive. bottom line, you are a revive bot with no CC and potentially no damage, while the enemy support has a [[Crescendo]] or [[Rocket Grab]]. I'd tottaly trade a 12s CD or AoE stun for [[Chrono shift]]. or maybe the other way round.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=Pheyniex] extra life is useless if you end up dead in the next 0.5 seconds. you stay at mercy of whoever is around you. if that means that your apc finaly did its job and left 5 teammembers for the adc to pcik up, fine. I just don't see that happening. glad to know that you would, in you best ability, pick support [[Nidalee]]. I'm sure i wouldn't, not in such a serious manner. Much less [[Zilean]]. Not against capable players. there is a difference between [[Flash]] and [[Chrono Shift]]. one gains distance, other leaves you at mercy of whatever is around. zilean is only for winning lanes. not more, not less. you can't assume he won't be focused while ultied, nor that you can actually take advantage of the revive. bottom line, you are a revive bot with no CC and potentially no damage, while the enemy support has a [[Crescendo]] or [[Rocket Grab]]. I'd tottaly trade a 12s CD or AoE stun for [[Chrono shift]]. or maybe the other way round. [/quote] inb4 [[revive]]/[[teleport]] [[karthus]] with [[zhonya's hourglass]] and [[seraph's embrace]].[/quote]

[quote=drakon136]If only Revive wasn't becoming Dominion only.[/quote]