My first Hecarim build

[quote=MoonFever]So, I’ve just picked up Hecarim with the thought that he could be a fast Jungler and good at ganking. I played my first game vs. bots using the recommended items to see how the champ plays. That didn’t seem like a good idea. I’m currently 18th level, so buying runes is out for now, but here is my plans for him at this point: 3 Greater Quints of Speed 9 Greater Marks of Hybrid Pen (though just Armor pen may be better?) 9 Greater Seals of Armor 9 Greater Glyphs of scaling Magic Resist Masteries Not as much thought at this point. The main Utility I want is Movement speed. Beyond that, more defense the better was my thought. Spells Ghost for the increased speed, which increases Attack Damage, and Smite for jungling Starting Items Hunter’s Machete and Health Pots Final Build thoughts I looked at the items that increased mobility the most, and how they would impact the build. Plus those items that spat out AoE damage, just for more harass. Spirit of the Elder Lizard – Beyond the attack damage and CDR, the True damage will help plink champs. Plus this item accelerates our gold farming. Boots of Swiftness – The bonus 60 Movement speed will give us 15 AD also. Add Alacrity at some point for even more speed and bonus AD. Zephyr – This was the only non-boot speed buffer I went with, because of cost and Tenacity. Since I am going with Boots of Swiftness, this is where I decided to go for the CC reduction. The Attack Damage, Attack Speed, and CDR are also nice. Ravenous Hydra – I think this is more of a luxury item. Good attack damage and health regen along with life steal. This will work well with his W in dealing damage to heal from. Spirit Visage – Beyond the normal benefits, it will buff his W healing. Sunfire Cape – More AoE damage around him, along with Armor. My fear is that his damage won’t be high enough to finish an opponent, while not being tanky enough to take it to the face in a team fight. Some interesting stats on this build: Speed will end up at 487. This is around 140 bonus movement, which will lead to 35 bonus AD. I believe his ending Attack damage will be 279 Q ability will do 299 W will do 260 E will do 262.5 – 525 R will do 350 Attack speed at 18th will be close to 1.5 swings a second. Thoughts? Side question: Would this build, or a tweaked version, work for Vi, since both are AD junglers?[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]your first problem is that youre focusing on his passive too much his passive isnt that amazing and you shouldnt be stacking MS to try and get the best out of it, you even did the math yourself and youre only really getting 35 bonus AD which isnt worth buying swiftness AND Zephyr also hydra is "ok" on him but its really not that good of an item for hecarim since hes more about sustained AoE damage rather than burst with hydra(plus he doesnt need to reset anything since all of his abilities dont mess up his AA animation) my own build that i use when i play hecarim is Spirit of the Elder Lizard - same reasons you say, you could go Golem if you need more tankiness Ninja Tabi/Merc Treads - if they have a lot of autoattackers go with tabi, if they have CC you need to get past go for treads(you could still go swiftness if you really want to but imo those two are better as the extra AD isnt worth it) Phage/Sheen - the passive is good on him on both items, Phage for the extra MS boost and Sheen because of your low CD on Q giving you the Sheen proc constantly, you will eventually finish these items into Trinity Force Spirit Visage - same reasons as you said, no need to replace this at all Randuins Omen - an amazing tank item, the active is too useful to not get this item especially on someone like hecarim thats going to be in the middle of the whole enemy team anyways Sunfire Cape - another good tank item also the build i just stated can work for Vi IF you replace Trinity Force with The Black Cleaver(Vi can use Trinity Force too but i like having early armor pen from brutilizer on Vi)[/quote]

[quote=Anonymoustrollking]I main jungle in ranked solo queue and hecarim is one of the junglers that I do play and one thing I suggest is that you opt for more "Attack speed marks" It benefits hecarim a lot more in terms of clear speeds with these marks, however, you could also opt for flat AD, rather than penetration. Short answer: There's no armor/magic resist to penetrate on jungle camps and the early game is where you need to be most efficient in the jungle to have a good effect on the game. 0/21/9 is generally the way I go to play Hecarim, picking up the shrine duration increase on buffs - it really makes a good difference. As far as items, hecarim has a good passive, but it's not great. It's really only there to synergize with the fact that his E gives him plenty of movement speed. So you don't really need items i.e. Zephyr or Ghostblade. My personal favourite item for boots IS swiftness with either alacrity, furour or homeguard (depending on the game and situation). Additionally, hydra is not a good item on hecarim. He already has good AOE clear with his cleave. Now most hecarims opt to play tankier rather than offensive and the main reason for that is hecarim needs to sustain in a fight to soak as much damage as he can while also being the team initiator. His utility is what makes him such a great team initiator and you don't really want to die in a second trying to burst someone down, but, rather be the person standing in the way of all your carries, pushing the bruisers off your carries and making it easier for them to get kills. The optimal build I play with on hecarim would be something like this: Spirit of the Anceint Golem ( Or Elder lizard is ahead early) Spirit Visage, Sunfire, Randuins Then situational items could be Trinity force - Great for extra burst Icebourne Gauntlets - If they have a strong AD based team with good gap closers that can get to your carries, this item is optimal to AOE slow and peel for your carries. Thornmail - Auto attack based team (i.e. tryndamere, AD carries (and to some extent AD casters) Banshees Veil - If they have 2 or more AP carries, I will opt for this item in addition to spirit visage.[/quote]

[quote=SpawnOfHell][[warpath]] scales really badly, and [[hecarim]] doesn't have the best AD scaling ever either. Like already said, don't build around it. Attack speed is really not necessary, [[rampage]] already gives you the DPS you need, and it's AoE. Imo [[hecarim]] has to build full tank or at least 4/6 of his items should be tanky since he's like [[skarner]] or [[udyr]] - he needs to stay in combat for long durations, and being squishy doesn't make that easy. My recommendation for [[hecarim]]'s core build this: [icon=spirit of the elder lizard size=30][icon=mercury's treads size=30]/[icon=ninja tabi size=30][icon=sunfire cape size=30][icon=spirit visage size=30] [[spirit of the elder lizard]] is one of the only offensive items I get on [[hecarim]] because it's dirt cheap, which means you can rush straight into building tanky before teamfights break out. With this build, you can do a lot of damage over time just by sitting on top of as many enemies as you can. [[iceborn gauntlet]] makes sticking to people really easy. Sometimes I build [[last whisper]] as a 6th item when I'm already tanky enough and I really need to deal more damage. I would avoid [[trinity force]] despite how good it looks - it takes too long to build and by the time you finish it you'll be falling behind in defenses so it's very much a luxury item. Other items recommended are [[randuin's omen]], [[thornmail]] and [[banshee's veil]]. [[hecarim]]'s build is nothing really that special or difficult to figure out, it's just a standard tank build with Elder Lizard instead of Ancient Golem.[/quote]

[quote=MoonFever]Thanks to all for the input. I have had some success with Amumu in the jungle, so I am familiar with the Tanky build. I was looking for a more aggressive ganker similar to Vi. I had initially thought about building speed on Hecarim wouldn't be as much of a detriment because of the passive. Between the comments here and game experience I see that's not worth it. Since hisstrengths would be in peeling and tanking, does that mean his AP bases abilities are better to build for? They would give him more sustain. Should I consider the defensive AP items if I don't go full tank?[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]you shouldnt be focusing on damage items as hecarim btw i use armor pen marks and MS quints on hecarim cuz his base damage on Q is high and extra MS is good to have[/quote]

[quote=MoonFever]I am close to 20th level now, so I will be able to buy greater runes shortly.[/quote]