MazeBertTD

[quote=jhoijhoi]Hi guys ^^ Wall of text incoming. tldr at the end. I'm not sure how many of you know how much I like Tower Defenses, but there you have it 8D I started out with Warcraft III TDs like Wintermaul, PokemonTD and GreenTD before moving onto more complicated TDs like ElementTD and finally YouTD. The only problem is that playing TDs on Warcraft III can be a huge pain - there's always the risk of playing 3 hours and then randomly dropping. The Evolve client has helped a little in that regard, but I still didn't play much YouTD. I was on the Eeve.org forums, and trying to get some of the regulars to make an "official" YouTD game outside of Warcraft III. As you may or may not know, that's a huge task. If you haven't played YouTD before, I can sum it up in a few words: hard, statistics, elements, items, potions, replace/upgrade system, tower levels, rarity of towers, typage (ghost, armour, spell resist), thematic etc. It would be a colossal undertaking to make something [i]near[/i] as complex as YouTD. So you can imagine my delight and surprise upon finding an app that was similar to my favourite TD. I say similar because the mechanics are clearly based off YouTD, but the towers are completely different and some elements from YouTD are missing, like spell damage and such. And MazeBertTD has some additional things that allow for easier play, like transmuting cards, and for strategic play, like item sets. Within a month I was the highest level player on the ladder, and also had the highest bonus round survival time until the last version was released (I haven't played much of the latest version since the ladder reset). I made a few suggestions in the forum, and some of my suggestions were accepted, like the addition of a new tower card. I enjoyed the game, but, as all games, it was getting boring after repetitive play. The creator of the game, Andy, holds challenges for each version. This version challenge is to create a new map. Exactly the sort of thing that would make this game fun to play again (even if it was only until the optimal map set up had been found, anyway). Warlemming created two submissions, one of which I believe to be the best idea: two spawn points that travel to the middle of the map. tldr; This thread was to serve three purposes: 1) Get you guys to try the game out ([url=http://mazebert.com/download/]download[/url] it on Desktop Windows, Android Google Play or Apple AppStore). 2) After getting a feel for the game, [url=http://mazebert.com/2014/06/08/vote-for-your-favorite-map/]vote[/url] on the map you'd like to see (preferably Warlemming's Map #1! 8D) 3) If you're interested in making a TD through GameMaker, let's get together and try! Reply in this thread, or we can start a PM thread ^^ Obviously you don't need to do the last two on that list, but I would like to see your opinions on the game itself. It's only at Version 0.9.3 so there is quite a way for it to go ^^ Looking forward to the responses.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]It's "TL;DR:", not "tldr;". [color=#202020]<3[/color][/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD]Used a ton of GM, also to make TDs. It's interesting for sure.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]Nick: Have you played YouTD? I want to make something like that, but as an app for a phone.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=jhoijhoi] Nick: Have you played YouTD? I want to make something like that, but as an app for a phone. [/quote] I have not, I can check it out though. I mean I don't know YouTD but it shouldn't be tough. TD games are fairly simple in terms of design; coding is simple.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]Would love to hear your take on how hard it'd be to code a TD like YouTD. I assume you have Warcraft III, but here's the link to the latest YouTD download: http://www.eeve.org/download.php?num=23[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=jhoijhoi] Would love to hear your take on how hard it'd be to code a TD like YouTD. I assume you have Warcraft III, but here's the link to the latest YouTD download: http://www.eeve.org/download.php?num=23[/quote] That depends on the scope of the project. Are you gonna try to get customizable towers made? Because that will be hard. I don't think custom towers is a good idea. Custom maps would be a much better idea. But honestly, YouTD doesn't seem all that good in general. It's clearly too complex in areas where it doesn't need to be. [spoiler=I mean, just look at this chart:][img=http://www.eeve.org/files/YouTDtowerValues.jpg][/spoiler] There's quite literally about 20 different damage modifiers. That alone is a clear sign of bad design. Then there's the risk factor, and I'm sure the creeps drop gold, which is more bad design. As for MazeBertTD, well, it's not all that good either. Plenty of examples of bad design here too. I mean, if you're able to leave the game running for 15minutes (on normal), without losing a single point of life then I think it's pretty clear the game has some major design-flaws.. It has a few fun ideas, but they mostly fall with the bad design. The Android app seems well coded at least.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=jhoijhoi] Would love to hear your take on how hard it'd be to code a TD like YouTD. I assume you have Warcraft III, but here's the link to the latest YouTD download: http://www.eeve.org/download.php?num=23 [/quote] First, I agree with Searz regarding the custom towers. And yeah, most TDs have some really major design flaws. Regarding the difficulty of coding it; I'd say it's pretty easy. It takes time but in essence, it's not all that hard. I've never coded Android apps ever though, so I do not know what they offer and how flexible their language is.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]Searz: The point of those modifiers is replay-ability. It really is a game you can play over and over, testing out towers. Normally I wouldn't care what someone says if they haven't actually tried the game, but you've clearly never played YouTD, so can't possibly know what it's like, and I'd actually like to know if your opinion stays the same after actually playing a round of it ^^ The chart of stats is actually quite comprehensive: physical damage + modifiers / spell damage + modifiers / luck / mana regen / experience + levels ... it's all simple stuff, not complicated at all? Nick: You can directly export a GameMaster game to Android etc, so if you can code in GM, you can code an app. As for custom towers, that's not something offered in MazeBert. In YouTD you CAN script your own tower, but it has to be approved by the dev team and added to the game by them. The game is protected. In general, I can't say that YouTD has any design flaws beyond being hindered by Warcraft III; as mentioned earlier, you risk the chance of losing any progress through dropping. Though YouTD does have a save function. However, I'm not much of a coder or designer, so I'm sure if either of you actually played the game, you'd be able to bring up legitimate flaws that I haven't considered.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=jhoijhoi] The point of those modifiers is replay-ability. It really is a game you can play over and over, testing out towers. Normally I wouldn't care what someone says if they haven't actually tried the game, but you've clearly never played YouTD, so can't possibly know what it's like, and I'd actually like to know if your opinion stays the same after actually playing a round of it ^^ The chart of stats is actually quite comprehensive: physical damage + modifiers / spell damage + modifiers / luck / mana regen / experience + levels ... it's all simple stuff, not complicated at all?[/quote] No, bullshit. The point of the modifiers is not replayability. Modifiers are okay, but TWENTY? No. That is bad design, plain and simple. The problem is that they're adding complications where there need not be any. [quote]In general, I can't say that YouTD has any design flaws[/quote] EVERYTHING has flaws. Are you kidding me? How in the world did this occur to you as being a reasonable statement? YouTD has fuckloads of design flaws. I don't even have to play the game to point out several of them. But now that I have I can point out some pretty glaring ones. The zoom-level is WAAAAY too close. It makes it absolutely dreadful to try to get an overview of the map. Nothing outside of choosing your first builder is explained properly and the tower research and building system seems like layer upon layer of unnecessary complications. Wanna play a TD that has a lot more good design? Try [url=http://www.gamerconfigs.com/wc3maps/maps/13667-natures-call---circle-defense]Nature's Call - Circle Defense[/url]. It is IMMEDIATELY obvious what you're supposed to do in that TD. [url=http://www.epicwar.com/maps/4028/]Tower Tournament[/url] is another example of something that is better designed. Heck, Plants Vs Zombies is actually an example of a lot of good design. There are obviously problems with it, but almost all of the game is self-explanatory. The visual cues clearly indicate what is happening and you never really need something to tell you what is going on.[/quote]