"Little help" with Udyr

[quote=Max Carter]Last week I asked for help with nasus, and (at least for me) I did well as I never did. So here I'm to ask something about Udyr, a champion I love the gameplay/style/skin/skills since low level, but never really played, and when I did, oh crap... lol When I played phoenix could go only to level 3, now I saw some guides, now every spell reachs level 5? And i need to choose one to reach only level 3? o.o Runes: [[Greater Seal of Evasion]] obviously, because it synergize really well with passive and deffensive three, [[Greater Glyph of Shielding]] I just love them, and don't have others (only 5 or 6 CDR per level LOL), and I see on the guides, Marks and Quintessences, are mixed on Attack Speed or Armor Penetration... AS for Phoenix and ArmP for Tiger I would play him more tanky, like the jungle item (madred or lantern), Merc's Treds, and I would pretend to build more 3 deffensive itens, and 1 offensive, trinity force, probally. So, how can I choose between Tiger or Phoenix? Tiger is more burst and buffs with AD. Phoenix is more AP and DPS... But, wich should I get? D: Someone help... Wich are the pros and cons of Phoenix and Tiger stance? [: Or maybe can I put them level 5 and bear level 3? :D Or not?[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Every spell [i]can[/i] go to level 5. The thing about Udyr is he can be very one directional. Focusing on one thing over another. Bear should never be level 3. It is the only thing you have that's even close to a gap closer. Udyr should be built tanky with 1 or 2 AD items. I'm not an expert but, that's about the extent of my knowledge right now.[/quote]

[quote=Bernarnar][quote=Max Carter] When I played phoenix could go only to level 3, now I saw some guides, now every spell reachs level 5? And i need to choose one to reach only level 3? o.o[/quote] Yes, 3 stances get to lv5, and one gets to lv3. On an offensive build, Turtle will be lv3, and on a defensive one, Phoenix or Tiger will be lv3. [quote] Runes: [[Greater Seal of Evasion]] obviously, because it synergize really well with passive and deffensive three, [[Greater Glyph of Shielding]] I just love them, and don't have others (only 5 or 6 CDR per level LOL), and I see on the guides, Marks and Quintessences, are mixed on Attack Speed or Armor Penetration... AS for Phoenix and ArmP for Tiger[/quote] If you're playing him in the Jungle (as you should be): [[greater mark of desolation]] [[Greater seal of evasion]] / [[greater seal of resilience]] [[greater glyph of warding]] [[greater quintessence of desolation]] / [[greater quintessence of fortitude]] [quote] I would play him more tanky, like the jungle item (madred or lantern), Merc's Treds, and I would pretend to build more 3 deffensive itens, and 1 offensive, trinity force, probally. So, how can I choose between Tiger or Phoenix? Tiger is more burst and buffs with AD. Phoenix is more AP and DPS... But, wich should I get? D: Someone help... Wich are the pros and cons of Phoenix and Tiger stance? [: Or maybe can I put them level 5 and bear level 3? :D Or not?[/quote] [/quote] [[Tiger Stance]] + Fast Jungling + Early Dragon + So good with [[madred's bloodrazor]] + procs [[trinity force]] nice + doesn't need MPen + Kill towers faster - Slower to kill minion waves - Less AoE [[phoenix stance]] + AoE means you clear huge minion waves faster + Increase in AD + Goes nicely with AD/AS items - Scales off AP - Needs 3 attacks to proc - The AD boost is Activation, not Permanant Personally I'll get 5/3/5/5, you don't HAVE to choose BETWEEN Tiger and Phoenix, both together is a viable playstyle. In terms of building, [[madred's bloodrazor]] if you take 5 in tiger, [[Trinity force]] is great anyway, and items like [[sunfire cape]] [[randuin's omen]] [[force of nature]] and even [[abyssal scepter]] (if you're maining phoenix) are good tank items.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]No Bernarnar, you should get 10-15ArP on most junglers and the rest should be AS.[/quote]

[quote=Max Carter]Ok, but, i think the shield is very good, so I want it 5... ArmP for tiger, MRP for phoenix, so i can't decide in game --' need to choose before. [[Tiger Stance]] seems to be more nuke power, and phoenix AoE. But isn't better focusing on tiger? [[Madred's Bloodrazor]] Give AD and AS, [[Trinity Force]] gives AS, AD and Sheen (150%). [[Phoenix Stance]] level 3 will increase my AD by 16. Is [[Guinsoo's Rageblade]] viable on Udyr? AS, AD and AP... Why the guides don't show a 4/5/5/4 skill build? It's a hybrid between them '-' How can I fix Udyr mana problem? If i'm without blue, I'll be oom...[/quote]

[quote=Bernarnar][quote=Searz] No Bernarnar, you should get 10-15ArP on most junglers and the rest should be AS. [/quote] 1.66 * 9 ~= 15 anyway; and ArP Quints are perfectly fine for the ganking you could be doing on carries with ~= 30 Armour, ESPECIaLLY if he's tigering. If he's going phoenix, you're most likely right. Personally I run ArP > AS with a Tiger Jungle, AND I've found it better for Trundle. [quote=Max Carter] Ok, but, i think the shield is very good, so I want it 5... ArmP for tiger, MRP for phoenix, so i can't decide in game --' need to choose before. [[Tiger Stance]] seems to be more nuke power, and phoenix AoE. But isn't better focusing on tiger? [[Madred's Bloodrazor]] Give AD and AS, [[Trinity Force]] gives AS, AD and Sheen (150%). [[Phoenix Stance]] level 3 will increase my AD by 16. Is [[Guinsoo's Rageblade]] viable on Udyr? AS, AD and AP... Why the guides don't show a 4/5/5/4 skill build? It's a hybrid between them '-' How can I fix Udyr mana problem? If i'm without blue, I'll be oom... [/quote] MPen is unnecessary on udyr. The damage from Phoenix's procs is so minimal against Champs, you want it to combine the AD increase with the passive (and potentially Tiger's) AS increase. Rageblade might work but really you want to be focusing on Tank and AD moreso. Tiger, Stance Dancing and Bloodrazor / Triforce will give you the AS. You don't NEED to choose your stances beforehand. You could decide to change how you play depending on your team and the enemy team. Just have a rough idea how to fulfil what Udyr can do. About going OOM - Learn when to stance. Just be conservative really. Personally I'd focus on a Tiger/Phoenix Hybrid. You NEED Bear at 5 because with blue (~15% CDR) you can have perma speed-increase.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]No, I'm not most likely right. I'm always right on runes. Since I haven't gotten all that into jungling with Udyr yet; let's take a look at Trundle instead. What time do you finish Stonewall's superior route at? I can finish it at 05:30 with [u]utility masteries and [[Vampiric Scepter]] start[/u]. (1/8/21) Also staying at high health through most of the jungle.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=Max Carter] Ok, but, i think the shield is very good, so I want it 5... ArmP for tiger, MRP for phoenix, so i can't decide in game --' need to choose before. [[Tiger Stance]] seems to be more nuke power, and phoenix AoE. But isn't better focusing on tiger? [[Madred's Bloodrazor]] Give AD and AS, [[Trinity Force]] gives AS, AD and Sheen (150%). [[Phoenix Stance]] level 3 will increase my AD by 16. Is [[Guinsoo's Rageblade]] viable on Udyr? AS, AD and AP... Why the guides don't show a 4/5/5/4 skill build? It's a hybrid between them '-' How can I fix Udyr mana problem? If i'm without blue, I'll be oom... [/quote] MagPen. Not necessary. It makes Tiger's proc and Phoenix hit harder. That's it. Solving your mana problems without blue, Get [[Frozen heart]]. Makes you tankier, provides some CDR and, gives mana. Also, smart management of your skills will help with the OOM part. Rageblade is only good if... you have nothing better to buy really.[/quote]

[quote=Bernarnar][quote=Searz] No, I'm not most likely right. I'm always right on runes. Since I haven't gotten all that into jungling with Udyr yet; let's take a look at Trundle instead. What time do you finish Stonewall's superior route at? I can finish it at 05:30 with [u]utility masteries and [[Vampiric Scepter]] start[/u]. (1/8/21) [/quote] I would do it and tell you right now if the EU servers weren't completely balls. Also [u]I'm pretty sure everyone runs Vampiric Scepter and mostly Utility on Trundle[/u][/quote]

[quote=Max Carter]Come on guys, please dont fight... I'm just a noob, needing for help. My build would be probally this: [[Mercury's Treads]], [[Randuin's Omen]], [[Banshee's Veil]], [[trinity force]], [[madred's bloodrazor]]/[[wriggle's lantern]], [[sunfire cape]]/[[force of nature]]/[[abyssal scepter]] I'll buy AS marks, I have AS quint, MR/lvl glyphs, and mana/5 seals. Should I get dodge runes on him? So, you guys know my build, I'll use that. I don't really like [[frozen heart]], its very good, but its expensive and dont give health. I'll try to understand: [[Tiger Stance]] If my team have less AD/Auto-Attacker and [[Phoenix Stance]] if my team have less AP/AoE? I'm jungling like this: phoenix - turtle - phoenix - bear - turtle - tiger mini golems - wraiths - wolf - blue - gank/back/red - keep doing this But, if i'm going to put tiger in level 5, I should jungle on the tiger style, right? Priority is Main damage choose - bear - turtle - second damage source? edit: With this build, wich stance would deal more damage? The AS bonus + Tiger or the AS bonus on Phoenix proc?[/quote]