A guide should contain information that is optimal.
Vynertje wrote:
As you pointed out, people who don't have a clue how this game works can get influenced really easily and then it is hard to change that 'incorrect' view of the game. If I'd tell someone who is level 1 that 2-1-2 setups are the best and I let him play 50 games with that setup, he will be very likely hold onto that strategy - it is just like how the human brain can get influenced easily.
This has always been one of my biggest problems with guides and this site, and with forums and sites in general. I've seen this happen time and again where players received bad advice when they were new from someone they trusted or a guide they thought was infallible, and then they continue using it and defending it to the death for years to come and wonder why they ended up in Wood VIII.
You can see it happen all the time here - someone makes a thread asking for advice and gets given really bad advice to take away. Or alternatively someone makes a **** guide/thread and starts a huge argument, refusing to listen to anything because 'it works for them'.
I'd rather people get no advice at all than bad advice. At least then they don't have preconceptions.
WRT decay and resets, I came up with an idea that has a very similar effect but involves not actually doing either:
What about expiring all guides, making them unable to be updated further, but allowing authors to clone their old guide contents to a new guide ("Copy your Chapters over to Create a Season 4 Guide"), but not copy the cheat sheet... thus forcing them to edit their items/masteries for season 4?
Then there can be a little section on the champ pages that displays like the top 3 expired guides and says "Best of Season 3". That can display for some amount of time, and when you click on one of these force expired guides, it has a message that this guide is from S3 and might not apply anymore.
This would not wipe or reset votes/comments, still preserve the author's previous season work, create like an "archive" of what the meta / whatever was the previous season back, the top rated s3 guides would still display as a "Best of S3" for a while, and new/clone guides would need to be created and voted upon accordingly to "refresh" champion guides.
If there could be an association made too, then a person who sees the old season 3 guide could be given a message like "This author has remade this guide for season 4. Click here to visit the new guide."
Well, the basic idea is that rather than having people update their guides for season 4, you'd be forcing them to create an entirely new guide which would thus have new votes, new comments, etc. S4 guides would not keep their old scores because they would be entirely new guides, but the s3 guide with the s3 score would still exist.
There would still be a selection of guides cause there'd be both season 3 guides that people can't vote on anymore ... with some s3 tag or marker or label, and new cloned/updated guides with a new s4 cheat sheet and s4 info that people can vote on. And as an added bonus, you'd have a guide time machine where you can see how champions were played in previous seasons.
...
Yes people are going to be salty, but if Billy wants to have the #1 Thresh guide in season 4, then he should work for it instead of getting a free pass based on voting that occurred before season 4.
I don't think it will happen, but meh.
astrolia wrote:
What about expiring all guides, making them unable to be updated further, but allowing authors to clone their old guide contents to a new guide ("Copy your Chapters over to Create a Season 4 Guide"), but not copy the cheat sheet... thus forcing them to edit their items/masteries for season 4?
Then there can be a little section on the champ pages that displays like the top 3 expired guides and says "Best of Season 3". That can display for some amount of time, and when you click on one of these force expired guides, it has a message that this guide is from S3 and might not apply anymore.
This would not wipe or reset votes/comments, still preserve the author's previous season work, create like an "archive" of what the meta / whatever was the previous season back, the top rated s3 guides would still display as a "Best of S3" for a while, and new/clone guides would need to be created and voted upon accordingly to "refresh" champion guides.
If there could be an association made too, then a person who sees the old season 3 guide could be given a message like "This author has remade this guide for season 4. Click here to visit the new guide."
astrolia wrote:
Well, the basic idea is that rather than having people update their guides for season 4, you'd be forcing them to create an entirely new guide which would thus have new votes, new comments, etc. S4 guides would not keep their old scores because they would be entirely new guides, but the s3 guide with the s3 score would still exist.
There would still be a selection of guides cause there'd be both season 3 guides that people can't vote on anymore ... with some s3 tag or marker or label, and new cloned/updated guides with a new s4 cheat sheet and s4 info that people can vote on. And as an added bonus, you'd have a guide time machine where you can see how champions were played in previous seasons.
...
Yes people are going to be salty, but if Billy wants to have the #1 Thresh guide in season 4, then he should work for it instead of getting a free pass based on voting that occurred before season 4.
I don't think it will happen, but meh.
hi embracing. yes i play ff14 now.
Luther3000 wrote:
I'd rather people get no advice at all than bad advice. At least then they don't have preconceptions.
I feel the same way.
astrolia wrote:
WRT decay and resets, I came up with an idea that has a very similar effect but involves not actually doing either:
I don't think it will happen, but meh.
It'd be a shame because those are good ideas and shouldn't be too difficult to implement.
Wayne3100 wrote:
If it's vote decay, it's because implementing it now would actually have a different effect than the people suggesting it were hoping for (which would be top rated guides with a lot of old votes falling down).
I'm curious now. Could you go a bit deeper into what effects vote decay probably would have? I assume it's been gone over in one of the various hidden forms.
XeresAce wrote:
Hers an idea, why not go go over the top guides and scout the ones you believe are simply the best guide for that champion even if they usually aren't something you would scout. This way, you give the good guides visibility and it doesn't really matter if a bad guide is ay 96% because most people would click on the scouted/featured guide first.(at least I would)
Isn't this basically what scouting was supposed to do in the first place: highlight the best guides on the site and give exposure to new up-and-coming guides that have real potential? Perhaps we need to be thinking about why the scout system hasn't done that.
astrolia wrote:
WRT decay and resets, I came up with an idea that has a very similar effect but involves not actually doing either:
It'd probably be easier to just not let people update S3 guides into S4 guides and let all the S3 guides expire naturally. With rune, mastery, and item changes, as well as champion and jungle changes, S4's already looking different enough that the vast majority of guides would need a full rewrite to stay current anyway. People can and will just copy over their old text to a new guide, so I don't figure that a special button and script to make it easier is necessary or desirable.
OTGBionicArm wrote: Armored wimminz = badass.
My posts may be long. If this bothers you, don't read them.
My posts may be long. If this bothers you, don't read them.
lifebaka wrote:
I'm curious now. Could you go a bit deeper into what effects vote decay probably would have? I assume it's been gone over in one of the various hidden forms.
Eeh, we didn't really get too many details on it, but I think the idea was that top rated guides with a lot of old votes wouldn't drop because they still get a lot of views (and new votes as a result of that) whereas other old guides that were lower in score would see all their early votes decay without having the same amount of new votes to keep the rating from going down significantly.
As said though, there weren't too many details given, it was tested by admins and I only know one of them mentioning that vote decay wouldn't quite work out the way most thought it would, this is just what I think would be the most logical explanation ;)
Quoted:
It'd probably be easier to just not let people update S3 guides into S4 guides and let all the S3 guides expire naturally. With rune, mastery, and item changes, as well as champion and jungle changes, S4's already looking different enough that the vast majority of guides would need a full rewrite to stay current anyway. People can and will just copy over their old text to a new guide, so I don't figure that a special button and script to make it easier is necessary or desirable.
Honestly, I agree, but I know from suggesting things previously on this site that locking down all old guides would never fly.
hi embracing. yes i play ff14 now.
I see absolutely no problems with the vote resets on each season. That's such a simple fix and it would do so much for so little.
The only "problem" I see is the potential outcry from top guide writers that they no longer have #1 status. But you know what? Babies gotta grow up.
The only "problem" I see is the potential outcry from top guide writers that they no longer have #1 status. But you know what? Babies gotta grow up.
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I'm pretty sure this idea's been floating around since I started at mobafire. Why hasn't it been implemented yet?
That would depend on which exact idea you mean since there have been several different things mentioned here. If it's a score reset, it's because the admins decided against it (as for the exact reasons, not sure, was a pretty long time ago). If it's vote decay, it's because implementing it now would actually have a different effect than the people suggesting it were hoping for (which would be top rated guides with a lot of old votes falling down).
In general though, yes, you're right, some of these discussions are held more than once :P